The EFTM podcast – Digital ID – awesome or scary – the future though!

Episode: Digital ID – awesome or scary – the future though!
Podcast: EFTM
Date: 19 May 2026
Host: Trevor Long

[00:01:09] Trevor: G’day, g’day, great to have your company and, uh, thank you for downloading once again the EFTM podcast. Trevor Long here and, uh, look forward to talking to you. If you’ve got a tech question or a tech comment, I’d love to be of assistance or just shoot the breeze with you about tech. We’ve got a couple of people to talk to today. Um, plus I want to talk digital ID, Malcolm Roberts’ favorite topic. Do you remember that episode? Wild. Um, but there’s been an announcement by the government about digital ID, so I wanted to dig into a little bit and try and understand it. So we will talk to, um, uh, one of the managers of, uh, the Australian Payments Network, Australian Payments Plus, uh, ConnectID. Remember we talked to them about the age verification system that they were introducing with Snapchat and other platforms. Well, ConnectID is in, in its simplest form, a digital ID. And so how and where can it be used, and when are we going to get it in more places, and should we be worried? Obviously they’re going to say no, but I’ll leave you to judge based on what they and I say. That’s what we do here. It’s all good. Um, but most importantly, I would love to hear from you as well. Uh, if you have a tech question or you know someone else with a tech question, you can refer other people to me as well. You can tell other people, well, just, just text Trevor and he’ll see if he can answer you. If you do do that, please let them know it’s a podcast and I’m not just going to ring them randomly. I had a funny interaction with someone. It was— I was lining up someone for the, the EV podcast. So producer Rob works hard lining up the callers for this show, but for some reason he hasn’t taken over lining up the EV callers. That’s a conversation for another day. You probably want more money, so I’ll have to clip money off Steven and— ah, it’s just complicated. No, I’m joking. Um, but I was texting a guy guy, and I said, oh, you’re available to talk? And they go, who is this? And I went, scroll up, like, you text me. Uh, and then it turns out they were, um, they were driving, so they just got my message, and it was like, that’s a bit weird. Um, and, um, and then they said, yeah, sure, I’d love to chat, but don’t want to be recorded or on air or anything. And I’m like, well, that’s pretty much what we do. Uh, there’s no real benefit for us in just taking 10 minutes of our time to talk to you randomly about your questions or issues or comments or whatever it might be. So it was just funny because why else would you text? But anyway, if you do refer me to someone, please let them know that I am a, a broadcaster commentator who will talk to them while recording them. Uh, it’ll be just them and me. Um, that’s how we operate, but it’s a bit of fun. Uh, there’s a bit going on, as you will have seen, at eftm.com. Lots of products and stuff I can’t even talk about now. I’ve, I’ve been wearing a product all morning that I’m going to talk about probably tomorrow. Um, there’s some fascinating stuff happening in, shall we just say, the audio space. I’ve been talking all week on the radio also about JBL’s new range of headphones, so hopefully they arrive today and I can have a bit of muck around with those as well. Um, yeah, lots of little products to play with. Uh, I’ve only got a week and a half before we head to London with Amazon for their Deliver the Future event, and then we’re off to Cupertino, California with Apple for the Worldwide Developers Conference, which is just 2 and a half weeks away, give or take. It is— the diary is filling up pretty fast, and I had to have a conversation with Steven, a bit of planning conversation about podcasting, because obviously I also plan later this year to have a little family holiday with the kids and my father-in-law, my wife. We’re taking my father-in-law and the kids to New York to see the Yankees. My father-in-law’s a big Yankees fan, so why the hell not, we say. So we’re going going after the— hopefully Apple has an event in September and I just go from there because my family’s all booked to be in San Francisco that week. So if Apple delays their September iPhone event, my wife and family will be on holidays in the US and I’ll have to duck out and go back to Apple. So that’s life. She— that they understand the turbulent nature of these things. I may not know that until a week beforehand. God love it. So we’ll play with that as it happens. But That’s later in the year, so there’ll be no EFTM podcast during that time as well. But there will be Two Blokes Talking Electric Cars, there will be the movie show, and there might be a couple episodes of Two Blokes Talking Tech with me, but I think probably we might enlist the help of Valens Quinn from Gadget Guy to pop in and do some weekly stuff with Steven so I don’t have to be complete weirdo on holidays doing podcasts. But I’ll have products to review over there, so it’s a bit of a working holiday, but more holiday than work. Anyway, all of that is to say, you can’t rely on this show happening every week because in 2 weeks I’ll be in London and I don’t know that I wanna get up at whatever hour of the morning this is, 1:00 AM or something, oh no, midnight it’d be right now, and do talkback calls with Australia. I don’t, I just don’t see that happening. But we might, you never know. We also might have cool interviews. So I’m trying my best to remember when I get cool, emails to say, oh, let’s just do it on the podcast. So I think those are fun things for us to do. So when I’m with Amazon, I’ll try and have some conversations that I can bring to you on the podcast. Just like today’s conversation with Andrew from Payments Plus Network, you know, trying to enhance this as to more, just more than just your calls. So trying my best to remember at all times that I’ve got this platform and can use it in the same way that I just dropped the Sachin Adela interview here because I thought, why not? Like, I did it, I may as well share it, you know what I’m saying? But I always welcome your feedback. It’s always welcome. Is it always pleasantly welcomed? No, but I’m— I take it for what it is. So please don’t hesitate to let me know what you think. Uh, 0477 657 657, or jump onto the app and click Ask Trev, or the website of course and click Ask Trev as well. Um, I’m not going to pre-announce anything else. There’s things going on. I’m playing with stuff. I’m meddling, but we’ll, uh, we’ll get to that in, in the fullness of time. For now though, let’s get to your calls and talk digital ID.

[00:07:35] VOICE OVER: 0477 657 657. That’s the text line. Thanks to Vodafone. Get in touch and ask Trev today.

Andrew — Wi-Fi 7 router upgrade advice

[00:07:46] Trevor: Great to have your company. Thank you for listening. Thank you for downloading and thank you for getting in touch. Always good to hear from you. It doesn’t matter whether you want buying advice or you want to brag about something. I’m here for you and can take your call. Andrew’s on the line. G’day, Andrew.

[00:08:01] Andrew: Hey, how you going?

[00:08:01] Trevor: Yeah, really good, mate. What can I do for you?

[00:08:04] Andrew: Hey, looking to upgrade my home Wi-Fi and yeah, just looking for some advice. I’m currently running an AirPort Extreme, but we’re getting the NBN on and you just need some— looking at Wi-Fi 7 future-proofing. Got 2 small kids that are only going to use it more and more.

[00:08:22] Trevor: So yeah, how old are the kids?

[00:08:25] Andrew: 8 and 2.

[00:08:27] Trevor: Oh yes, they are going to use it way more. What do you have? Describe the home to me. Single story, multi-story, deep, long, wide? Single story.

[00:08:36] Andrew: Yeah, single story, L-shaped. It’s on a, you know, on an acre. So outside if we can as well. Looking at Wi-Fi 7 if possible. But yeah, just there’s too many things on the market and I’ve got no idea.

[00:08:51] Trevor: Budget in mind?

[00:08:54] Andrew: Doesn’t really matter, just as long as it does the job.

[00:08:57] Trevor: Yeah, well, mate, it’s annoying. As annoying as it is, you get what you pay for. That’s the first thing to know. So it’s funny, I had someone just yesterday say, I’ve got this Google Mesh and I’ve had it for a few years and it doesn’t do this. And I’m like, well, I mean, you know, it’s a different system and it doesn’t do this because of, you know, what’s built into it basically. So sometimes it is exactly that. So I’m mindful of the products under $300, for example, you know, they’re never going to, they’re never going to outlast the dreams and ideals of your children. So, you know, I look at the products in the $600+ range and I go, okay, so take for example two side-by-side Amazon eero and Netgear Orbi Wi-Fi 7, both of them 3-packs, both of them $649. That’s, that’s a, that’s a starting point. Without any question in my mind, I wouldn’t go less than that if if you can afford that, that’s a great starting point. Firstly, because it’s a tri— it’s a 3-pack system. So router, 2 satellites, that’s going to work beautifully in an L-shaped home. And that, that’s also going to kind of COVID that backyard area just because of the very nature of the shape of the home. They’re both Wi-Fi 7. That’s also great. The limitation, if I was to find a limitation for you in, for example, the Orbi 370 series in that price range, is that it’s dual band. And so when we say dual band, you have this system where the, the, your, your home network has two, two Wi-Fi networks, the 2.4 GHz and the 5 GHz. Different devices connect to different ones and they work on different speeds. All good. But those routers, so the Orbi or the Amazon Eros or the TP-Links or whatever you buy, they also need to communicate with each other. And with a dual band system, they’re using the same Wi-Fi bands to communicate with each other as you are to get on the internet. Which is why a tri-band system starts to look really attractive. But it’s a big jump up. For the Amazon eero, it’s $1,199. So you’re talking a, you know, $500 price jump to get a tri-band system that’s still Wi-Fi 7. But that’s, that’s a like for like. $649 Amazon eero, $1,199 Amazon eero. Netgear do have a system, but it’s even more expensive. It’s $1,499. So there’s a lot of benefits to the Netgear system, I would argue, especially with kids. There’s parental controls, there’s home security, as in your device security built in, so you can’t be attacked from the outside on your network. Um, it blocks other devices joining your network. There’s some seriously good things about the Netgear system, but at $14.99 it might push you too far. So you might end up going, you know what, Amazon’s pretty good at $11.99, Wi-Fi 7, tri-band, pretty darn good deal. And if you wonder in the future, you’ve always got the expansion. Amazon, I’ve got an outdoor thing you can plug in, but I think you’ll get the outdoor coverage you want from any of these systems just based on the design of your home.

[00:11:56] Andrew: Yeah, nice. I have been sort of looking at the Ubiquiti Dream Router 7. I’ve had a little bit of experience mucking around with them, but try, man. Yeah, it is.

[00:12:08] Andrew: but it comes a bit of a hobby once you start to dive into that stuff.

[00:12:12] Trevor: It’s an ecosystem of its own. But you know, one, one great thing about Ubiquiti is the community. Now, look, And, you know, a lot of, a lot of people own Netgears and own Amazon Eros and own Google Wi-Fi. But are they on Reddit, like, you know, helping each other? Not as much. So the Ubiquiti community, like, if you come up with ideas or things you want to do with your network or things you want to block or enable, the community is remarkable for Ubiquiti. So if you’re a bit of a dabbler, then you may love that in that sense. But just know that it’s a gateway drug to expanding and growing and doing a lot of different things. But you I’ve never heard a bad word said about Ubiquiti.

[00:12:53] Andrew: That’s good to hear.

[00:12:55] Andrew: Appreciate it.

[00:12:57] Trevor: No worries, buddy. Good luck and enjoy the speeds of Wi-Fi 7, mate. Thank you.

[00:13:02] Andrew: Have a good one.

[00:13:03] Trevor: All right, buddy. Good on you. No worries at all. Yeah, I mean, I don’t mention Ubiquiti because they’re rarely available in major retail stores. I call them niche, but— and they are, they’re broadly niche. They were born out of more of a small business corporate style network. And they are very tinkery. While they do work out of the box, a lot of the core features and things are best enabled through a bit of tinkering. So, you know, that’s probably one of the reasons they don’t really crack major retail like JB’s. But, you know, JB’s, if you look now, that’s pretty much dominated by Amazon, Netgear, and TP-Link. There’s others there, but that’s essentially the market. Now, I think that’s also a sign of what JB’s seen. You gotta remember, a retail store like JB, they don’t just go, oh, you got a product, you want to sell it? Cool, yeah, okay, put it on the shelf. They, firstly, they do deals because you’ve got to, you know, buy the shelf space essentially. But more importantly, they monitor everything. So if they get a 5% return on Amazon Hero, a 3% return on Netgear, and when I say return, I mean people bringing them back because they break, fail, or didn’t work, or too hard to work out, and they get a you know, 12% return on another brand. They’re gonna go, when they’re looking at their shelf space and they go, oh, you know what? It’s just more trouble than it’s worth to bring out the other brands. So I’m fascinated actually now as I just look at the JB website to think, I think they’ve narrowed their range. I think they’ve narrowed their range to a point where they believe they have found the most trusted brands in this market. And it appears to be a race of 3. TP-Link, Netgear, and Amazon. Um, so all power to those 3 brands. Uh, there’s an ASUS there as well, I can see, but you know, if I scroll, I don’t see a lot other than those. Um, anyway, there may be more, but just at a quick glance, it doesn’t appear that way. So there’s a lot of options there, and I’ve said it for many years, but knowing the difference between one another— so which is why I point out the difference between the 649 and the 1199 It’s going to be less congestion. It’s going to be when those kids do grow up and they’re using the internet more, everyone’s going to get a bit of a path on the freeway, and that’s what you want.

[00:15:26] VOICE OVER: Tech, cars, lifestyle. This is the EFTM podcast with Trevor Long.

Andrew Black — Digital ID, ConnectID and the federal budget announcement

[00:15:32] Trevor: Great to have your company, and if you want to be part of the show, I would love to hear from you, uh, whether you’ve just bought something new or you’re looking to buy something new, uh, it doesn’t matter. Get in touch, 0477 657 657. Send us a text and and we’ll get you on the show and we’ll have a chat, try and help you out, or you can just brag about something you bought. I’m cool with that. So before we get back to your calls, the federal budget last week, lots of memes going around about it, but the thing that hasn’t gotten any attention really, and I thought it would, to be honest, because people freak out when you talk about Digital ID, was $650-odd million allocated to Digital ID through Services Australia and other things. And in broad, simple terms, my own summary reading of it is essentially they’re refunding and additionally funding the, the systems and backends that allow for the digital ID and trying to expand it, uh, in some way to roll it out in a, in a better way and make a system that they describe as essentially tell us once. So you shouldn’t have to tell the government one piece of information about you more than once because they should all know about it. It’s the government. And that is essentially what a digital ID is. Plus there’s a very exciting trial that will demonstrate A great use of Digital ID. Now, one company that’s very close to this is Australian Payments Plus, and we spoke to them earlier in the year or late last year about the social media ban and the age verification system that was being rolled out using their platform called ConnectID. And I’m pleased to say Andrew Black, the Managing Director of Digital Trust at Australian Payments Plus, joins me again on the line. G’day, Andrew, how are you doing?

[00:17:09] Andrew Black: Yeah, well, Trevor, how are you?

[00:17:10] Trevor: Mate, really good. Before we talk digital ID, ConnectID, we talked about it, I think when it first rolled out, it was Snapchat was where I discovered it, but you’ve now got that connection happening on a few different platforms. How’s that going?

[00:17:23] Andrew Black: That’s right. So quite a few places in social media. So Snapchat and Reddit are the sort of two headline names, as well as a few others, but also across a range of other places, you know, Telstra, Deloitte, Football Australia, and a range of customers from sort of small medium across lots of industries.

[00:17:43] Trevor: And to rewind for people that might have missed that conversation, essentially what your platform allows me to do when a website or a service asks me to verify my age or other information, I’m simply connecting my bank account through your system, but without handing over any information or giving any authority or handing over any banking information to that platform or service. You’re simply verifying me in a simple and easy way.

[00:18:14] Andrew Black: That’s right. So what we sort of really set out to do is how do you help verify someone, you know, is who they are, say they are, or something about them, like the age for social media, you know, with an organization that they already know and trust and who already knows and trusts them, like the bank. So we work with the, um, the four major banks, um, so far in Australia, and extending that further out to mean that instead of having to, you know, take photographs of passports or documents or upload or scan something in, um, you can just get your bank to verify, yes, it is Trevor, and for social media, you know, is over 16. And that’s all about making things really easy for people as well as reducing the risk, right? Reducing the amount of data you have to share, information you have to share, and keeping things, you know, safe and straightforward.

[00:18:58] Trevor: What is your take as a company on the announcement in the federal budget? Is it good? Is it enough? Should there be more done?

[00:19:06] Andrew Black: I think it’s really encouraging, to be honest. So yeah, $654 million, I think, over the next 4 years. And I think what that means is sort of setting out a few things. The government is committed to expanding and continuing the digital identity programs. Primarily what that sort of looks like is, you know, the government making it really easy for people to interact with government. So using MyID, using Services Australia, and building on the foundations of that. We already do that for the private sector with ConnectID. So government sort of has that system up and running for the federal government. ConnectID’s been doing that with the private sector. What this budget continues to show is actually the next stage is how we bring those two things together. And how do we allow people to use either your bank identity in the government services or use your government identity with private services?

[00:19:55] Trevor: Well, that’s a critical thing, right?

[00:19:56] Andrew Black: That’s a critical thing, privacy, right?

[00:19:57] Trevor: What I was most worried about in the world of digital IDs is having to have too many of them. Is the vision for the future, medium to long-term, that an individual like me just picks a lane and essentially picks an app? Like, I think about my mom, she’s in her 70s and I have set her up with the MyID app app because I know she needs to log on now and then to Centrelink or whatever it might be. I don’t see me setting up another ID app for her, right? But as someone tech savvy broadly, I mean, I could obviously use a bunch of apps, but should we as individuals just get to choose which app we use and it gets used everywhere? Is that the goal? So if I choose to be a ConnectID user, then whether I’m signing up at Telstra or for a rental home or signing into MyGov, myGov, should I be able to use the one app?

[00:20:50] Andrew Black: So that word choice is the crucial one, right? So what the government’s been really clear on is that nobody’s gonna be mandated to use a digital ID. Nobody’s gonna be forced to use myGov. And the choice and sort of trust and transparency are really important. What ConnectID will allow you to do is you can choose who you want at that point of interaction, right? So with Telstra, if you’re taking out a new plan today, you can choose between the four major banks. So there’s no new digital ID app to download or need to set up. You can just use your banking app app. But we’ll also work with the federal government to connect in so that you could also use MyID if you wanted to. And some people will want to, some want to use a private sector provider and use their bank, somebody will want to use the government. And actually, for some people, it’s kind of situation dependent, right? Like, if you feel like maybe you’re taking out insurance, that might feel more of a financial services sort of transaction, you might want to use a bank. If you’re doing something in, you know, your children’s sort of education enrollment, that might feel like more of a government transaction. A lot of our research says that people want to have choice at that point in time and what feels most comfortable to them. The key thing for us is that by using our network and Australian Payments Plus has sort of been running the payments networks in the country for 40 years. Our network means that for a business, you plug in once and you get access to all of these sources. And for a user, we have sort of that no wrong door. It’s like when you tap your card at a terminal, you don’t know how the payment is sort of wired in the background, right? It just works. I just wanna know the time.

[00:22:17] Trevor: I don’t wanna know how the wire works. The watch is made, as they say, do you know what I mean?

[00:22:22] Andrew Black: Exactly.

[00:22:23] Trevor: And your system is essentially built on the trust that we as individuals have with our bank. So when, what I guess we need to get to understand is, I’m assuming that when I sign up for a Telstra plan or whatever it is, and I wanna talk to you about that in a minute, but when I’m going to take the path of ConnectID, it’s actually one logo. We think checkout on a website, you’ve normally got the option of, do I wanna use Google Pay, Apple Pay, or PayPal, right? There’s 3 buttons. Are you saying to me that in the future I’ll be able to sign up to things and now, but more so in the future, and there’ll be a ConnectID button that then launches and sends me to my bank, or will it just show all 4 bank logos? Because clearly if you onboard more banks, you won’t be able to show all the logos. So is it ConnectID that becomes the face of this for the banks?

[00:23:15] Andrew Black: That’s right. And that’s how it works today. So you’ll see a, you know, sign up with ConnectID or check out with ConnectID button on the the Telstra website today. You’ll click on that and then it will drop down a list of all the available providers. So the 4 banks today, more in the future, but also MyID in the future as well. So it would just drop down that list afterwards for you. Then you choose your provider, you log into your bank the same way you would today, whether it’s PIN password or biometric sort of login. You consent, ’cause again, really important that the individual’s aware of what they’re sharing and importantly what they don’t have to share. And then you take them back to, to tell her to finish checking out, right? And it’s, you know, 20 seconds for me to explain it, but, you know, 5 seconds to click and do it.

[00:24:00] Trevor: The rental application pilot the government announced is also buried deep in the budget documents, but I thought it was an excellent initiative because there’d be plenty of people listening who are either in the process of looking for a rental property or have recently been, or any, at any point been through that process. Is it the case that essentially Rather than— and this is how I’ve described it, so tell me if I’m wrong— but, you know, wherever you need to prove your identity, you’ve got to bring along a passport, a driver’s license, and a Medicare card. You’re 100 points of ID. I think the average Aussie knows what 100 points of ID means, and they probably, if they get told they need to bring it, they probably quickly check, hang on, does a bank card, a driver’s license, and a bill add up to 100, or whatever it might be. Is it the case that Instead of having to show 100 points of ID to a real estate agent who’s going to photocopy my driver’s license, my energy bill, and my Medicare card and keep it in a folder somewhere in their office, or worse, scanned and in the cloud somewhere that I don’t know how secure it is. And instead of that, I use a digital ID of some sort which verifies me, and that’s all they need.

[00:25:10] Andrew Black: I’m impressed you made it that far into the budget. Hey, for sure, that’s, that’s, that’s some—

[00:25:14] Trevor: I won’t lie, I use AI. AI, I used AI.

[00:25:17] Andrew Black: Okay, I was gonna say, I question your nighttime reading if that’s what you made it to. But no, you’re exactly right. So, you know, today the process is pretty manual, pretty cumbersome. And the other challenge with rental is it’s not just the time you actually successfully, you know, get a rental application to do it, it’s every time you apply.

[00:25:36] Trevor: Yes.

[00:25:36] Andrew Black: You know, and people are typically, you know, in this market sort of applying sort of 5 to 15 times before often getting a successful application approved. So every single time there, you’re oversharing that amount of data. What the trial proved with the Department of Finance, the government, was that actually digital ID is a perfect way to remove some of that friction. You can verify that I am Andrew, I’m over 18. In some scenarios where you need to prove affordability, you can say, you know, I earn enough to afford this rent, right? Without having to share 7 years worth of bank statements to be able to do that. And it gives the real estate agent all they need and also reduces the amount of things they have to store, right? They don’t wanna be storing all this document. The next challenge, which is where sort of the budget sort of comes in, the next steps of that is aligning legislation because while it sounds boring, actually today you can’t accept a digital identity in some states.

[00:26:28] Trevor: And I was gonna ask, why does the government need to be involved in this? ‘Cause it sounds like the sort of thing, if I’m a real estate agent, I’m trying to digitize everything. I’m like, what do we do to avoid this? But then if you realize that actually there’s requirements at law, which say that you need to do and store and cite certain things, then that needs to change first. Before an industry can change.

[00:26:51] Andrew Black: That’s right. And it’s state by state with real estate and rentals. Some you can, but some you can’t. But it’s a good example of where, you know, the technology is there ready, people are adopting it and using it. Actually, we just need to sort of align the legislation. But that was the point of the trial, right? To show government and show, you know, the industry that there’s better ways to do this. We did that with the telco sector sort of 12 months ago. Again, you had to capture a document 12 months ago to verify something about you. But we demonstrated that with ACMA, the regulator there, that the digital identity reduces fraud, makes things safer, and there’s no kind of decreased security. And that legislation has been changed as a result, right? So there’s lots of wins there.

[00:27:34] Trevor: So I’m blown away because I didn’t even know that. Like in my mind, the Optus hack and other hacks pointed to a problem that existed with our identities that legislatively, legislatively, Optus, for example, needed to copy and retain your driver’s license number, expiry date, and things like that as a proof of your identity, etc., etc. Are you telling me it’s all— the legislation has already changed that they are not required to retain identity information that was used to prove who the individual is, and they now need to just— they are able to, don’t need to, but they’re able to simply use a digital ID to verify an individual usual?

[00:28:17] Andrew Black: So it has subsequently changed, yeah. So in the last 12 months. So that’s the power of what we’ve demonstrated with ConnectID along with the amazing help of Telstra is showing that you can make things easier for people, you can make things easier for the business and you don’t compromise security and actually you increase the detection of fraud and help protect both people and business all with one sort of wave of the legislative pen.

[00:28:42] Trevor: Did you say that Telstra had implemented it only on one aspect like prepaid or postpaid? I can’t remember what you said. Said?

[00:28:48] Andrew Black: So currently today, yeah, on prepaid SIM activation, but that’s expanding over the next sort of couple of months. So you’ll, if you stay tuned, you’ll see it pop up in a few more places in Telstra in the next month or so.

[00:29:01] Trevor: I mean, that’s a huge step forward in, and so hang on, let’s just rewind here and be very clear. So if I either buy online or get at a service station, grab a Telstra SIM card, and then I go to activate it, it always asks me who I am. And let’s be clear, I’ve done I’ve done this so many times because I have tested many telcos over the years. So I’ve actually, I think I’ve been blocked from, because you don’t know how to have, you’re only allowed to have so many services in your name. And so I need to be unblocked from some of the telcos. But, and there’s a reason for that, right? Because the government realized that, you know, the underworld, excuse me, was buying a bunch of SIM cards and acting illicitly. So they made a change. You had to prove who you were and you could be limited only by a certain number of mobile plans, et cetera, et cetera. So I can now, I’ll go and get a SIM. And when I go to sign in, it asks me my name and my address, but then it uses ConnectID to verify who I am. And basically I’m not handing over much at all to Telstra.

[00:29:59] Andrew Black: Exactly, exactly that. We’ve been doing that with Telstra for a year. We’ve launched that with more telecom as well. And there’s a few more telcos sort of coming in the coming weeks and months. Because as you say, it’s absolutely right that you need to identify who the individual is, right? Some of those are used for nefarious purposes. But what we’ve shown is that doesn’t need to be with a photocopy. It doesn’t need to be uploading a document. You can do that really cleanly and simply with a digital ID and still protect Telstra, protect the user, user, and make everything easier for everyone.

[00:30:32] Trevor: And so do you now have a team that’s literally looking at legislation and going, right, where’s, what other industries do we need? Because again, and, you know, applying, I think of the hacks that have occurred, right? So Latitude was another one. And you think about the amount of places where you can now do finance at the counter, whether it’s a big retail store or otherwise. And those things, obviously, that’s good that they require information, but it’s about reducing what I hand over that gets retained. So I’m, I’m all for, and I think we’re all for them proving who we are, but it’s about what gets retained. And we just need to remind ourselves, Medibank, Latitude, Optus— those breaches resulted in millions of people’s data being exposed. And so if we fast forward 20 years and we go, okay, well You know, we don’t want to put it on Telstra, but, you know, they’ve been using this, this system for 20 years in their prepaid system. How many people were affected by some sort of security incident? Oh, 10 million customers, but no information was obtained because we don’t retain any information. Full stop. Done. We’re in a good space. That’s the purpose of this.

[00:31:40] Andrew Black: Exactly right. That’s the beauty. You then don’t have, you know, 10 million people who have to get a new driving license because their driving license number has been part of that breach, right? There’s nothing there or captured. So we’ve got a range of different industries. So that’s insurance, super, or you may hear the expression TRANCH 2 thrown around, which is a very, very boring regulatory change, but a really important one where anti-money laundering laws are extending out to more sectors. So again, this is when businesses need to verify something about you for money laundering, which again, absolutely the right thing to do with those, track the regulator, but it’s extending out from currently today, you know, banks, financial service providers, to a lot of small businesses, accountants, bookkeepers, rental as well. These are new compliance burdens for those sectors that don’t currently have to verify today. And actually the benefit now with Digital ID is that they can get that right from day one, right? They don’t need to go through this back catalog of purging old things they’ve had to capture. You know, when that comes into force in July this year, they can use Digital ID from day one and they don’t need that huge big cybersecurity team team that many of the multinationals have when they’re a 1 to 10 person business. They can capture that, meet their regulatory requirements and keep things safe from day one.

[00:32:59] Trevor: What do you say to, or have you even met with Malcolm Roberts, for example, who’s very, very anti-digital ID?

[00:33:11] Andrew Black: Sorry, privacy Malcolm Roberts?

[00:33:15] Trevor: Yes, Senator Malcolm Roberts, who spends— I interviewed him on this show about digital ID some years ago. And look, he just honestly, he’s a lunatic. He went on a rant and rave about government digital currencies and things. But if we put in a bucket a bunch of people who are scared of Digital ID, what do we say to them? Or is it not? Do we not need to worry about it yet because they’re not required to use it and we just say, don’t worry about it, just keep doing what you’re doing?

[00:33:44] Andrew Black: Well, I had the pleasure of Malcolm Roberts asking me some of those questions at a Senate inquiry on Digital ID a couple of years ago. So I can share that. You know, I think the benefit that we have actually with the system is that it sort of avoids that digital identity, Big Brother, Australia card debate. It is voluntary, it is opt-in. The benefit of something like ConnectID is it does give you choice. If you don’t want to use the government, you don’t have to use the government. That’s really the sort of sweet spot of what the design implementation is, that other countries have gone down the route of you will use the government identity everywhere you go. Australia is not doing that. Doing that. It has very much kept this as a, um, there will always be an alternative route, there’ll always be a non-digital option, and there’ll always be a non-government option. So I, I think that, um, some of those questions I understand, and I understand the concerns of, but they’re not founded in Australia. That’s, um, the benefit of what we’ve sort of co-developed with the, with the federal government.

[00:34:42] Trevor: And the great thing is, in the favor of Digital ID, there’s been enough publicity around around data loss and handing over of information that I think most people are aware and broadly scared. So while they’re not voting with their feet to change telcos because their telco got hacked, they’re wary from the next time they hand over their information. Are you in the prime pole position in the private sector with this, or is it a super competitive space?

[00:35:11] Andrew Black: Well, I think what we’ve seen is that there’s a few different factors at play. So what we have sort of built is the leading private sector, I guess, network and infrastructure in the same way we run the payments infrastructure for Airpost, BPAY, Pay2PayID, those sort of loved brands. So we’re certainly helping steer that forward for the country. Actually, competition is really good, right? And that’s why we have 4 banks competing, you know, we have the government competing, because competition means choice. And for users, you get more choice. For us, about enabling that and us playing that role of a sort of an acceptance network for businesses so that no matter if there is competition and choice, it doesn’t increase their costs. It makes things easy and simple for businesses.

[00:35:55] Trevor: It’s an awesome space, a fascinating space. And I do think this didn’t get anywhere near the attention it deserved, but that’s for other reasons of policy in the budget, I think. Any other day it could have been a huge, huge story, but you know, it’s probably a good thing in some ways that it just bubbles away and grows and then we get to a point where these rental stories I think will start to come out. How far away is that rental trial do you think?

[00:36:21] Andrew Black: So we concluded the trial I think in April, I think we concluded it a couple of months ago.

[00:36:27] Trevor: Yeah.

[00:36:27] Andrew Black: And government will be presenting its findings in the next sort of month or so we expect. And from there expect things to start rolling out sort of in the next couple months. So I’m hoping by the end of the year anyone applying for a rental application has the option to not share a passport or a driving license.

[00:36:43] Trevor: Amazing. And a real estate agent, there’ll just be a simple system for them. I mean, it’s not an overhead for them to implement.

[00:36:50] Andrew Black: Exactly. Really easy, really straightforward. It’s a lovely mixture of a system that we have already a range of companies on board that are small startups, you know, 1, 2 person businesses all the way up to your telcos. It really does cater for all.

[00:37:05] Trevor: Andrew, great to chat with you, mate. And you keep us in the loop as that rollout, especially across telco continues because because that’s a huge touchpoint for people handing over their identity and as we know, losing it as well. You’re doing great work and I look forward to clicking that ConnectID button at some point in the future as it becomes available in more and more places.

[00:37:27] Andrew Black: Thanks, Trevor.

[00:37:28] Trevor: Always good to chat.

[00:37:29] VOICE OVER: This is the EFTM podcast.

Damien — Optus plan options and Facebook algorithm changes

[00:37:33] Trevor: Great to have your company. Damien’s online. G’day, mate. Hey, how you doing?

[00:37:38] Damien: Good, mate. Yourself?

[00:37:39] Trevor: Yeah, really good. What can I do for you?

[00:37:40] Damien: Hey, been a while since we spoke. I know. I know. I went away from Buddy Telco. I went to Buddy Telco and got away from Optus, which shocked you.

[00:37:47] Trevor: Did you brush them when they got sold to Tangerine?

[00:37:50] Damien: Not yet. I’m starting to notice a few issues with, I think, with a couple of different things here and there. So I may be moving.

[00:37:57] Trevor: What sort of issues? Because I’ve had— we’ve had a few calls that randomly mention it and I was, to be honest, I was bummed by it. But, you know, I’m like, you created this great second-tier telco and then you sold it off. It’s a very strange business model. But that’s— I think that’s Wall Street talking is what I say. It’s like if it was just normal business, I don’t think it would have mattered. But because they’re on the stock market and they needed to show higher average revenues per user, I think they went, you know what, let’s just sell it off.

[00:38:23] Damien: Yeah. So I think there’s been a few dropouts here and there more so. And my last bill out of the blue went from— even though it says it’s the same pricing, technically they changed it and added a credit card fee. Fee to it of 1%. Wow.

[00:38:37] Trevor: Well, they’ve got to hang on. They’ve got to get rid of that soon because that’s being ruled out, isn’t it?

[00:38:41] Damien: I’m very happy about that. And all these businesses saying, oh, we have to charge more. No, just add it into your price. I want— it’s a bit like bags. I actually go to Woolworths and Coles and I refuse to pay for bags. I actually grab a bag and I say, well, you didn’t include in your price of your food.

[00:38:55] Trevor: I saw someone on TikTok do that the other day and I’m like, you know what? I don’t think they would argue with you. Like, it’s a— —don’t get me down a rabbit hole here, but I reckon that’s one of the greatest scams, probably the wrong word to use, because think about it. For decades, Woolies and Coles were spending, let’s just call it $5 million a year on plastic bags. And then they went, “Okay, we’ve gotta get rid of those. So let’s get paper bags.” Let’s say they cost $6 million a year, and now they’re making $20 million a year on paper. They’re definitely making money ’cause I’ve had paper bags made and I made 200 of them. And they were pretty cheap. If I got 200 million of them made, I’m pretty sure they’d be less than 30 cents or whatever the hell they’re charging. It’s a joke.

[00:39:41] Damien: You know the only time I pay for a paper bag? And here’s another little tip. When you need to get cash out and go to Woolworths and they say you need to buy something from now on. Buy a paper bag. Just grab a 25-cent paper bag. You’ve technically paid for something.

[00:39:53] Trevor: I love it. I love it. Anyway.

[00:39:55] Damien: I’ve got every tip and the trick.

[00:39:56] Trevor: If I had time with the Woolworths CEO, that’d be my, if they said, You could interview him. You gotta see the questions first. I’d say I’ll interview him. I’ll ask whatever you want, as long as he or she answers me, how much do you spend on paper bags every year and how much do you make on paper bags every year? That’s all I wanna know. Yep.

[00:40:14] Damien: So anyway, but that wasn’t the reason I was calling, Trev.

[00:40:17] Trevor: Well, I mean, let’s just rant. What’s wrong with that? Why do they ask me if I wanna round up my purchase to donate to some charity when they’re the ones making millions? Why don’t you make the donation on my behalf? Half. Same with McDonald’s.

[00:40:31] Damien: You know how they ask you, do you wanna round up for 10 cents?

[00:40:33] Trevor: How about you just make a donation to Ronald McDonald House because I’m spending money with you? Exactly. Anyway, mate, what did you ring for?

[00:40:41] Damien: Mate, oh, I love sharing my tips and tricks, don’t worry. But mate, I’m on an old grant. I’m still with Optus Mobile Phone, remember? ‘Cause remember before the whole meltdown happened years ago, I was on a plan that said if you paid $5 once, you get your data for free. Well, and they— when I complained to them at the time, they gave me $20 off a month for 3 years to make me go away, essentially. And I accepted that time. So, but in come October, so I’ve started looking because my son’s— I’ve moved that little extra data thing I put in my son’s iPad now. So when we travel around and everything, he’s got data. I don’t have to share, don’t have to connect, share and everything like that. So I still want to keep a separate data plan for him, but I’m willing to move away from Optus. But it seems like every data plan is like $30 a month. So I know I’m coming off this deal and going to lose $20 a month, but it doesn’t seem like there’s anything that’s cheap out there that is a data plan only that’s once— that can get me leaving Optus, if you know what I mean, for the $5 a month I pay. And I’ll say, yes, I’m going to come off the $20. I’m going to ring them again and ask for a discount. Don’t get me wrong. Of course. But, you know what I mean? There just doesn’t seem to be anything out there that’s a yearly plan or, you know, just cheap, you know, to keep him going each month. A month.

[00:42:01] Trevor: And you’ve looked at Amaysim and Kogan and Boost?

[00:42:03] Damien: I did, yeah. But there wasn’t— it was still up there for, for data only. There wasn’t— what’s, what’s your number?

[00:42:12] Trevor: What do you want to pay?

[00:42:14] Damien: Like $10 a month. That’s it. That’s all a kid needs. It’s not like—

[00:42:19] Trevor: so how much data should that include? Oh, mate.

[00:42:26] Damien: If from what, from what he uses, it’d be 10 gig max a year or a month.

[00:42:32] Trevor: A month.

[00:42:32] Damien: Because it does, he does. Because what happens is he’ll leave the iPad going and all of a sudden YouTube, when we’re out and about, will just chew through data all of a sudden because he—

[00:42:40] Trevor: And so is the issue that you’re looking for a data-only plan when, so for example, Kogan has $149 a year for 140 gigabytes. See, that’s so $149 a year, just over $10. Come more, mate.

[00:42:56] Damien: Yeah, well, like I said, if I can leave Optus, because at the moment I’m paying Optus, and when I come at the— oh, it keeps changing because I keep bringing them up asking for different discounts. So right now I think I’m paying, well, $52 including that, and I come off that and it’ll be, what’s that, $72? Yeah. So I could move. The thing is, we also— my wife moved to Boost. She moved from Optus to Boost when the whole thing happened. So we’re different telcos. Yeah. So I don’t really want to be going to Telstra with Boost, even though I know it’s going to be the best option because of the— if they go down, then, you know, I mean, you don’t have any—

[00:43:31] Trevor: 100%. I mean, for me, it’s, it’s really— there’s 3 telcos to choose from, and that’s Boost, Amaysim, and Kogan, because there’s 3 networks and 3 companies that will offer you a 365-day plan. So Amaysim, Optus network, so you know the network, you’re happy with the network, $175 $200 for 220 gigabytes. That’s— yeah, but I use—

[00:43:53] Damien: I use— no, I need— mate, you know how much sport I watch. I’ve just been to Magic Ground all weekend, so it’s—

[00:44:01] Trevor: so how— I pick your number, like 320 gigabytes is $200 a year. Yeah, that’d probably work. And, and you know the other— I look at it again, and, uh, because I was talking to my wife about this because her plan ended early because she used all the data up. I’m like, it doesn’t— so let’s say you go on the Amazeem, $199 for a year for 320GB. Well, you’re paying $72, so let’s call it, let’s call it $50, or let’s call it $60 because the $12 then goes to your son’s Kogan Mobile plan, right? So $60 a month, you’ve paid $200. It’s like, what is that, 4 months worth of, uh, even if the Amazeem plan runs out, so you’ve used the 320GB $120 gig in 10 months. So fine, it’s $199 every 10 months. Yep. Now, be clear, they’ll say to you that it’s actually more than that, it’s $320 a year ongoing. But mate, you can’t tell me that there’s not a phone call or something to be made to say, listen, you want me to renew here or not? Because you’re offering this number to everyone else, why aren’t you offering it to me? And also keep an eye on, for example, Kogan. People say to me often, they often have deals and you can buy the top-up and not activate it for a few months when you need it. So little tricks like that are useful. But mate, even at $320 a year, it’s still cheaper than what you’re paying now.

[00:45:27] Damien: Yeah, okay, I’ll look at that.

[00:45:29] Trevor: You’re just gonna need to let go of that longstanding customer service record at Optus that says, just give him what he wants, get him off the phone. Phone? Because that’s definitely in your records.

[00:45:43] Damien: yes, it would be because I’ve been with them for— hang on, yeah, I turned 41 the other day, so what is that, uh, 17, 24 years?

[00:45:50] Trevor: Is that right if I do maths? Yeah. And what, mate, stop asking me this, but they don’t— they’re not giving you loyalty. The only reason they’re giving you those deals is because they’re required to grandfather plans and because they’re sick of of your in. Now, which is great, it’s great that they’re doing that, but they’re not doing it for loyalty.

[00:46:10] Damien: True.

[00:46:11] Trevor: So unless a telco, in your case Optus, is willing to go, listen, Damon, you’ve been with us for such a long time, um, let’s give you, uh, a plan for this much and a plan for your son for this much, and let’s all call it a day, and you’re on 12 months, let’s go. Like, unless they’re willing to do that for you, why bother? And look, the thing is, I’m encouraging you here to switch to Amaysim, which they own, so they don’t care. They’re getting your money anyway. True, true.

[00:46:41] Damien: Trev, you’ve answered the question for me, so I’m definitely going— look, I’m going to wait till October until— of course I’m going to call them in September. Yep. But because I must admit, it is easier just having it all on one bill.

[00:46:55] Trevor: Yeah, but okay, let me counter that with saying, mate, if you’re paying once a year, that’s your wife, your son, and you. That’s 3 times you’ve got to make a decision about a payment. That’s true. So it’s not really a billing issue, do you know what I mean? Like, who’s looking at bills anymore? So if you go to annual, then you’re in a good space because it’s 3 times a year. And how old’s your son? 3. So it’s a long way off, but when they start to to have a conversation around, okay, you need to wind back your usage. I let my son’s run out at one point because I was like, you know what, he needs to come to me. I get the text message, I’m not topping it up. He needs to come to me and say, my data’s running out. And I say, okay, let’s sit down and go, why? What the hell are you doing? Why are you not on Wi-Fi when you’re at home? Why are you not doing this? Why are you not doing that? And by the way, it costs this much money. Look, my oldest is 19 turning 20 this year, but like yesterday, the car that he drives all the time needed new tires. And I said, mate, I don’t have time, da da da da, I booked it in. Can you take it up and use my card, da da da? And then he said to me, I asked him to ask them some questions about why they were wearing it a certain way, and he found out. And I said to him, I said, mate, all those things, so the pressure, all the advice, that’s on you ’cause you drive that car. And he goes, he wrote back, now that I know how much they cost, cost? 100%, because he saw the bill. He didn’t physically pay it, but he had no idea how much tires were. You learn that once. Like, he— like, you don’t learn that as a 14-year-old. You learn that as a 20-year-old the first time you need to get tires. You’re like, holy crap. So a kid only learns when they’re 10 or 11, when they start getting a mobile, that hang on a minute, I can’t just endlessly scroll unless I’m on Wi-Fi or whatever it might be. So that education around the bill coming up and the, and the text message coming through about their plan is important. My wife got it. She’s, why am I having to renew my data every month? Babe, because you’re using it too much. And then I looked, you’re not on Wi-Fi when you’re at home. What are we doing here? Okay. And that changed everything. It completely changed. Now she’s lasting way, way longer on a mobile plan. So I like the annuals because they make you think about your usage, I think, more than even a monthly plan does.

[00:49:09] Damien: Yeah. And hey, Trev, one last thing before you go. Your Facebook group, I feel that the algorithms have changed on Facebook with a lot of things. You reckon? In the last 3, 4 months. What’s it do? So instead of not just you, but in general. So you go and post something on your Facebook and it may used to get 30, 40 likes. Okay. Yeah. Now you get 3 or 4 and every second page you get, if you scroll, every second thing is something you don’t follow. Yep. Or an ad. Okay. So when you post, when people were posting questions back in the day on the F-Team page, it used to come up as a notification and you’d see it. I don’t see those anymore. And I feel like people aren’t— and people will ask questions unless you physically go into the, the man cave. There’s a lot less likes. And I’ve just, I’ve just noticed that probably about 3 or 4 months ago.

[00:50:00] Trevor: I agree. And so the example I’ll give you and I, when I posted about the TV tool, I actually tagged because it’s a weird thing to do, but I don’t use it often. But you You can tag everyone so they do get a notification. And frankly, you know, with respect to the audience, frankly, I was disappointed in the amount of engagement I got on that because I thought it was the coolest thing in days. But now I did get a lot of likes, so it was good. But you’re right, you don’t, you don’t see the content as much. Um, no. And I don’t know how you fix that because it’s Facebook driving the algorithm. Mate, I barely look at Facebook these days because when I log on, like, I’ve just opened up the page UFO and ‘Alien footage’ and there’s a picture of Elon and an alien. What the hell? No, go away.

[00:50:39] Damien: And then, like I said, even on personal stuff, even on personal stuff, I would post, let’s say, a photo of my son, and 3 years ago it would get 60, 70 likes from different people. And then of late it’s getting, like I said, maybe 20 if that. And I’m— it’s not that people— and it’s the same people, like, and I’m not saying it’s because it’s my— I’m just saying in general I’ve noticed more ads of more ‘follow this page’ and all this that going, I want to see my friend’s content, not crap I don’t follow.

[00:51:08] Trevor: And I think that’s the problem with social media today, is it’s all algorithmic. It’s like, mate, I said to someone the other day, um, follower counts are now almost irrelevant because it’s very hard to get new followers when you’re on, um— well, TikTok and Instagram are good examples— get a lot of views, but a lot of people don’t bother following anymore because they know that if you just watch something, you’ll, you’ll get more of that. So you don’t need to follow people anymore. And I think what Facebook’s trying to do is push you content they think you’ll engage with, so you’ll stay on the platform longer. What I’m noticing weirdly is they’re getting more video views. So Reels— they call them Reels as well on Facebook— but Reels on Facebook are doing very, very well for me in the same way they are on Instagram now. Not, not crazy numbers, but good numbers to the point where I now look at that and go, geez, okay, I’d forgotten about Facebook. And you go, holy crap, my iPhone foldable video got 40,000 views on Facebook. And I, and like this, I didn’t push that in any way. So I mean, it’s just changed. Facebook has just completely changed. And it’s sad because the group is, and, and, and more importantly, was a great source of engagement. I don’t know how to replicate that anywhere else? Um, no, I don’t know either.

[00:52:25] Damien: Like, I follow a few pages. I’m a part of a group chat, but it costs $5 a month on, on Instagram with, uh, with a rugby league guy who does a lot of content. That’s great. But I’m, you know, that’s probably— that’s how it does it, but it’s more of a group chat rather than a— well, you can now—

[00:52:40] Trevor: I can now post stuff in Instagram channels, so my Travel On channel, and people can reply, but they can’t create their own content. And no, the only The only real alternative is Reddit. And I think Reddit is too nerdy. So the thing about the Man Cave is it’s a bunch of people who aren’t ultimate nerds, but they’re their family’s nerd. So you can ask a question and not feel, see what happens on Reddit is you ask a question and people go, you’re an idiot. And I’m like, oh, whoa, whoa, whoa. Whereas if you ask a question in the Man Cave, someone will say, oh, you can do this and that. And if someone says you’re an idiot, someone else will say, dude, What are you talking about? You know, so that is why I love it that way. So I don’t know the answer to your question, but I’ll contemplate it, put it that way.

[00:53:23] Damien: No, but I thought you should know that it seems like you’re not getting— the engagement’s not there for when people ask questions for help as much anymore. Yeah, I’ve definitely noticed that in general and just in general stuff.

[00:53:34] Trevor: So good observation, mate. Thank you so much. Good luck with the telcos, mate.

[00:53:39] Damien: Thank you again, and always, always good to chat to you. Cheers, mate.

[00:53:41] Trevor: Always great to hear from you. Thanks, mate. I’ll let Optus know you’re gonna call. See ya, buddy. See ya. Bye. Damien’s been on the show a lot of times and will drive a hard bargain, whether it’s— I think Optus and Foxtel would be his two big nemesis, nemesis. But great feedback on the man cave. I agree 100%, and I wish it was different because it’s a great community community. But I don’t know how you fix it in simple terms. Maybe we’ll find a way. If you’ve got feedback or advice, let me know. Send me a text 0477 657 657.

[00:54:21] VOICE OVER: Tech, cars, lifestyle. This is the EFTM podcast with Trevor Long. You can text Trev now thanks to Vodafone on 0477 657 657. 657. Thank you for listening.

[00:54:36] Trevor: Uh, great to have your company and good feedback there from Damien on the Man Cave. So I would love your advice or thoughts on that. I do love that community and I want it to thrive, but a difficult place to thrive is Facebook when it’s algorithmically driven. So yeah, let me know what you think. I might get jumping there this arvo if I get— if I remember and, and have a conversation about Reddit. Maybe Reddit is a place, maybe it’s a better option. Maybe there’s a way we could, I don’t know, it’s a tough one. But let’s play around and have a think and see what we can come up with as a solution to continuing that community-driven, helping each other vibe that was created with the Man Cave over many years and thousands of people. So I’d like to continue that, I’d like to find a way. So whatever we can do, any advice you’ve got, if you’re running a Facebook group and you found ways around it or to push it, let me know. All help, all hands on deck is welcome here. So let me know what you think. You can do it through the app, you can do that on the phone, whatever it is. And I will talk to you next week. I think we’ve got some plans for next week. Otherwise, we’ll talk to you soon. Thanks folks, see you soon.

[00:55:50] VOICE OVER: Helping Australians with tech questions for over 15 years, the EFTN podcast with Trevor Long.