The Two Blokes Talking Tech podcast – Episode # 750 – iPhone 18 Pro has landed, Microsoft’s new AI rules

Two Blokes Talking Tech — Episode 750
Title: iPhone 18 Pro has landed, Microsoft’s new AI rules
Date: 2026-09-17
Hosts: Stephen Fenech (techguide.com.au) and Val Quinn (gadgetguy.com.au), filling in for Trevor Long, who is on leave with his family in the US this week.

[00:00:01] Stephen Fenech: Well, welcome, uh, to Val. Val, you're sitting in for Trev's on a well-earned break with his family in the States, and you have kindly, uh, stepped in, mate, for, for Trev. So welcome, buddy.

[00:00:14] Val Quinn: What can I say? It's good to be back in the chair.

[00:00:16] Stephen Fenech: And so you, you just returned you from, uh, the Apple event. I know we were together in Berlin and you went straight over to Apple, uh, and you've been back for a few days. So you settled back in, mate, to the time zone, or—

[00:00:28] Val Quinn: I tell you what, I mean We have multiple time zones to deal with. Text your nose. I'm back in Sydney for a while.

[00:00:34] Stephen Fenech: You don't get jet lag. You don't get jet lag.

[00:00:36] Val Quinn: Yeah, I've learned how to live with it. I think it's just a constant.

[00:00:39] Stephen Fenech: I, I, I managed not to get that. I'm—

[00:00:43] Val Quinn: I—

[00:00:43] Stephen Fenech: what I normally do is I think, right, where am I going? I want to be in the zone. So if I know I'm going to land in Sydney in the morning, I'll try to time my sleep so that I'm waking up in the zone. Is that what you try? Can you do that?

[00:00:54] Val Quinn: Yeah, that's the trick. The trigger is when you have to try to go to bed when nighttime is in that place and then wake up. And then you got to get lots of sunlight and eat as soon as you wake up. And I think that just tells your body, okay, new starting time.

[00:01:08] Stephen Fenech: Yeah.

[00:01:08] Val Quinn: This is how you start your day. And if you do that, then I think you're okay. But if you stay in the old time zone while you're over in the new time zone, staying up late.

[00:01:15] Stephen Fenech: Yeah, that's hard. And look, let's be clear, mate. Let's be clear. We, we travel, uh, we normally have a bit of a business class seat. We can sleep. So it's all right for us to offer the, uh, the advice.

[00:01:26] Val Quinn: But, uh, that's true.

[00:01:27] Stephen Fenech: That's, that helps.

[00:01:27] Val Quinn: That helps. Much more, um, tolerable. To say that.

[00:01:30] Stephen Fenech: Oh, that's good.

[00:01:30] Val Quinn: And we actually get work done, right?

[00:01:32] Stephen Fenech: I work. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. Well, you know what, I, I traveled to Berlin with, uh, Qatar. Have you ever tried flying with them and their Starlink connection?

[00:01:39] Val Quinn: Yes, Starlink.

[00:01:40] Stephen Fenech: That's like being on the ground with the internet. That's amazing.

[00:01:43] Val Quinn: It's so incredible. And when I flew from Berlin to, to, um, San Francisco, I flew Air France and they had Starlink as well.

[00:01:48] Stephen Fenech: Did they really?

[00:01:49] Val Quinn: Yeah. So it's, it's night and day. It actually changes the game. But the problem is, is that with Qantas, if you fly them, you're still— you've got nothing— disconnected. And in some ways, I kind of love that sort of little island of, uh, disconnection.

[00:01:59] Stephen Fenech: So their international Qantas flights have no— it's coming though, isn't it? They don't have connections, do they?

[00:02:05] Val Quinn: No, not the international ones. And the thing too is that, um, you know, they're retiring their 380s, so they're not really investing in those. Those are the big, you know, super jumbos. So I think, I mean, of any country in the world that could really use it on international flights, it's Qantas, but they're kind of lagging. But I expect a— maybe, maybe a Starlink or maybe even an Amazon LEO thing. Yeah, it happens.

[00:02:25] Stephen Fenech: Don't you find now that— I find that when I travel internationally, if I don't have Wi-Fi, it's like something's missing.

[00:02:31] Val Quinn: Oh, absolutely. It's, uh, it's especially when you're doing work, you need to kind of check in online, check in your website, do some research, and you can't do that. So you have to be really organized.

[00:02:40] Stephen Fenech: Absolutely.

[00:02:40] Val Quinn: If I'm disconnected, um, I find that all the files I need are usually somewhere else, and I just realize when I'm on the plane, uh-oh, I can't do anything.

[00:02:48] Stephen Fenech: Yeah.

[00:02:48] Val Quinn: So then I do nothing, maybe have a glass of water.

[00:02:49] Stephen Fenech: Yeah, I suppose. Yeah, that's the, that's the upside, isn't it? You just take a complete break, a complete disconnect, and you're, you're all, you're all good.

[00:02:56] Val Quinn: Yeah, that says a lot. It's good. We can, we can all do with more of those.

[00:02:59] Stephen Fenech: Absolutely. Well, let's get cracking with this. Welcome to Two Blokes Talking Tech. Not a bad price.

[00:03:06] Val Quinn: With Trevor Long from eftm.com.

[00:03:08] Stephen Fenech: Really handy device. And Stephen Fenech from techguide.com.au.

[00:03:14] Val Quinn: Welcome. We—

[00:03:14] Stephen Fenech: it was not Trevor Long, it's Val Quinn filling in for Trevor Long, and I'm Stephen Fenech. This is Two Blokes Talking Tech, episode 750 today. It's a landmark episode, 750. With support from Arlo and Netgear. We'll tell you more about them later. But Val, first of all, I thought we would kick off with probably the story of the week is the iPhone launch. Trevor, Trevor and I— Trevor actually was in the back of an Uber last week traveling into San Francisco to meet his family, recording the podcast, would you believe? So we, uh, we did discuss the event and you were there too. So I'm keen to get your thoughts on— well, the Duo is the big talking point, isn't it? And, uh, you've actually had it in your hand, you've— so Look, is it— from what Trev said, it's once you get it in your hand, it's pretty spectacular.

[00:04:02] Val Quinn: That's right. There's, there's one thing to see it, one thing to kind of hold on to it and see how it all comes together. And I think that's the, that's the key thing. And that's something that Apple does very well, is that they have full control over the building the device, making the software for the device, making the chips for the device. And when it all comes together, it's kind of a beautiful thing. And I'm, you know, I'm giving Apple a few platitudes here, but It feels really high quality. It's very, very well finished. It's made of great materials. It feels nice in the hand. It's got a thick sort of thick hinge and all of that. But it is very expensive.

[00:04:36] Stephen Fenech: Yeah, exactly. We'll talk about that in a minute. But I just want to like, they've had, uh, they've had like 8 years to get into the market. Samsung's been at this. I like how they've sort of sat back and let Samsung make all the mistakes and all the other companies make the mistakes and then They've come in over the top and I called it. I said with Trev weeks ago, I said, look, this is going to be beautiful. The software is going to be amazing. Everything, all these little surprise and delight features are going to be there. And that's exactly what they delivered, including the animation. Tell me about the animation when you open the device. That's incredible.

[00:05:07] Val Quinn: It's so seamless. It's, um, yeah, it's what's on the outside sort of blends into the inside or what's on the inside screen blends into the outside. It's, it without seeing it, it's kind of hard to describe, but it's one of those surprise and delight effects that Apple has made. And, you know, like with, with this phone too, I mean, I have to give credit to Samsung because they've gone through it. Like first generation, it was a disaster.

[00:05:29] Stephen Fenech: They did the hard yards.

[00:05:30] Val Quinn: They did, they did the hard yards. They really kind of pushed the category. They developed the category. A lot of other brands jumped on. But, you know, kudos to Samsung for getting— doing all the hard work. I mean, Apple, I guess I would say that if, if they don't do it first and innovate, they usually try to do it best. And I think that's really where we're at. However, I mean, this is a first generation device. And this is something to consider too, is that like most first devices, they sometimes have, um, you know, foldables, the things that need to be fixed up. And so maybe even with Samsung's— sorry, even with Apple's, maybe the first generation isn't going to be there, you know.

[00:06:05] Stephen Fenech: Yeah, well, that's right, you're right, it is their first foldable. So you don't know. I suppose that they're, they've had plenty of time to perfect this. From, from what I heard, I heard an interview with John Turnus, the new CEO, and Greg Joswiak.

[00:06:20] Val Quinn: Oh yes.

[00:06:20] Stephen Fenech: And they were talking to the guys from TechRadar and Tom's Guide. And there was one interesting thing that Greg was saying about how secretive this project was. And from what he was saying, I understood that it was, it was years in the making. But there was, there was, there was, there was one quote that he said where, um, you know, this was so secretive, we had extra security and And he sort of intimated the fact that, yeah, and it's, it's unbelievable that the sort of the design sort of got out and another, other company got in ahead of us and, and did it. He sort of was implying the fact that somehow Samsung found out about the new form factor and that they, that they went ahead, will they beat them to the punch with the Fold 8, right? So that was— I found that interesting. Um, how, how does— like, you've been a Fold user for a while, as much as me, and I know you've only had used the Duo for a little while How does it compare in those initials, in that sort of first, first time you've seen it to what you've known from other brands, including Samsung?

[00:07:16] Val Quinn: Yeah, look, it's a good size. I have to say that the, the sort of the passport form factor, which is Samsung came up with that with its Fold 8, I really like it. It fits well in the hand.

[00:07:26] Stephen Fenech: That's the size, isn't it? That's the foldable size.

[00:07:28] Val Quinn: It's the size because it's, it's, it's wider. You get a more sort of video window sized screen, one that kind of is better for playing videos. When it's opened up. And it's also kind of, it's quite smart the way when you close it, it's still the same aspect ratio. So the screen's the same shape still, only it's kind of, it's landscape when it's closed and then it goes horizontal when it's open, but it doesn't really lose its aspect ratio. And that's really clever because videos can move across and it's quite practical that way. I think, you know, it's very interesting 'cause maybe it was Apple's original shape and maybe others kind of, found out about it, or maybe, uh, Samsung came up with it on their own. I know, yeah, when we're in—

[00:08:11] Stephen Fenech: you know what do they say? Great minds think alike, you know.

[00:08:13] Val Quinn: Yeah, yeah, it's very—

[00:08:14] Stephen Fenech: did you see the Xiaomi one? Zhuang on the Xiaomi stand, they had exactly— it looked exactly like the Duo.

[00:08:19] Val Quinn: Yeah, I saw that.

[00:08:19] Stephen Fenech: That was a week ahead of their launch.

[00:08:21] Val Quinn: Yeah, that's right, it was there.

[00:08:22] Stephen Fenech: Yeah, and I thought it was under glass, you couldn't touch it.

[00:08:24] Val Quinn: Yeah, that's right, I walked by that, I got some footage of that. But I think Huawei did something too. So yes, it's not— it's not revolutionary, and there's been people playing around with it, um, but it is It's interesting how they've all kind of descended on the same shape all sort of at the same time. I don't really know how that worked.

[00:08:38] Stephen Fenech: I think, uh, you know, great minds think alike. And it's, you know what, it's like, you know, you look at all the different brand cars, they've all got four wheels, they've got a steering wheel, they're basically the same, just they've got their little eccentricities.

[00:08:49] Val Quinn: Yeah.

[00:08:49] Stephen Fenech: What do you think? What do you think? The, uh, the foldable market was pretty small before. At the moment, what do you think this is going to do to the foldable market? I will— I— my opinion, it's gonna And I've been saying it for ages, the rising tide will lift all the boats. All foldables will become more popular. People, I think, because Apple have done it, they've kind of— they've really thought, okay, with Apple's in this category, they've justified it. They've sort of— it's real. So a lot— and a lot of customers, I reckon this will be their first foldable.

[00:09:18] Val Quinn: Yeah, I think that when Apple kind of is in the ring, it's sort of— I don't know if I want to say legitimizes the category, but it goes from niche mainstream because it's a real vote of confidence, I guess, when a brand like that says, okay, we're gonna do it now.

[00:09:32] Stephen Fenech: It validates it, doesn't it? Validates the form factor.

[00:09:34] Val Quinn: Like, Samsung has had a history of trying new form factors, and some worked and some don't. Like, they were the ones who came up with the phablet, um, which was the sort of phone-tablet shape. Yeah, remember when phones are big?

[00:09:44] Stephen Fenech: The big phones? Yeah. Yes.

[00:09:46] Val Quinn: Now they're bigger, like the one in my hand.

[00:09:47] Stephen Fenech: The Note. I remember the Note. Yeah.

[00:09:48] Val Quinn: And I mean, the one in my hand is actually phablet size, but we've kind of all forgotten that. So yeah, Samsung used to take the risk. I mean, Apple's kind of, you you know, made this legitimate, I guess, or it's going to go mainstream. But, you know, it's, it's actually what I really like about it is when you open it up, it's like you're holding an, an iPad Mini. It's really a great size. But when you close it up, you're getting most of that sort of size and shape of an iPhone that you need. So yeah, really smart.

[00:10:11] Stephen Fenech: But Apple insists too that it's all iOS as well. It's not iPadOS. Yes, I heard about that interview. So it was iOS was adapted for that screen and it worked. It's as I expected, mate. It just works magically.

[00:10:24] Val Quinn: Yeah, yeah. But, uh, it's a good— it's interesting because they did adapt it in terms of, um, they put sort of icons along the sides now, so that user interface has been changed. So some of the things that you used to find on an iPhone, uh, there'll be some extra buttons along the sides.

[00:10:37] Stephen Fenech: Well, that's smart, eh, because that, that wider front screen, instead of having to put everything at the bottom, you— it's easier to reach it on the side. There's all— it's all— and, mate, I think the best feature apart from the design, is the nano— the nano texture inside. Like, well, that's a masterstroke because it's going to hide the crease.

[00:10:53] Val Quinn: Yeah, well, that's— I mean, Apple's execs even admitted that. They said to me that the, um, nano texture, or the, uh, a matte surface— the human eye doesn't sort of notice as many imperfections on a matte surface as it does a gloss one. So that's one good thing. Plus, it's— I think it just— it seems kind of thick. I love the texture. And when you do get— because the Apple Pencil support is going to be, uh, that is smart too.

[00:11:15] Stephen Fenech: Smart.

[00:11:15] Val Quinn: It'll actually, I think, feel better when you're using a stylus.

[00:11:19] Stephen Fenech: It will be like writing on paper. That texture is like paper, isn't it? Like, oh man, I would— I've got a MacBook Pro. Well, this MacBook Pro I got right here's got the nano texture. Yeah, my iPad has a nano texture. I don't think I can have a MacBook or an iPad without it now.

[00:11:32] Val Quinn: You know, it's interesting you say that because I, I got some comments when I just posted a video about the, the iPhone Duo, and people are saying, oh, I hate the matte coating, I hate it.

[00:11:40] Stephen Fenech: Um, it's— why do you try?

[00:11:42] Val Quinn: And they think it's gonna— it's gonna ruin the colors and it's gonna mute what you see on the screen. And I definitely did not notice that. The screen's bright, uh, I think it's 3,000 nits. It looks fantastic. So the nano texture doesn't do anything as far as I'm concerned, but some people just don't like it. They just want a shiny screen. Well, I think—

[00:11:58] Stephen Fenech: what— well, I think it's one of those things, the whole product itself and the nano texture, I think it's one, one of those things where once you see it in your hand, you really can't appreciate it. You'll think, wow.

[00:12:07] Val Quinn: Yeah.

[00:12:07] Stephen Fenech: And that's why I was wondering whether— and I don't think Apple even do this— you know, whenever Samsung released a new phone, their phone, right? They released the Fold and the Fold 8. It was weeks away from launch, but they had, they had devices in stores so people can touch them and feel them. Apple, I don't think do that. No, I don't think they're going to do that with the Duo either. They're going to wait for, for people to be there. That's why I reckon, mate, the line will be back. The iPhone line will be back. You know why? For people to try it. Yeah, before they buy it.

[00:12:38] Val Quinn: It is definitely a get in your hands, see it and feel it type of device. And I think people will go in just to do that. You're right.

[00:12:43] Stephen Fenech: Absolutely. Yeah, you're right. Could be the The line is back, mate. Oh my God, mate, let's talk about the elephant in the room, Val. The price. Yeah, boy, it's the most expensive iPhone ever for Aussies. It's $3,499, and that's for the entry-level model.

[00:12:58] Val Quinn: That's right, 256GB.

[00:13:00] Stephen Fenech: Yeah, and then you go 512GB, it jumps up to $3,899, 1TB $4,699, and 2TB $5,899.

[00:13:10] Val Quinn: Can you believe that?

[00:13:11] Stephen Fenech: Which is—

[00:13:12] Val Quinn: that is—

[00:13:12] Stephen Fenech: that's something you could buy a used car for that much.

[00:13:14] Val Quinn: Yeah, it's— I mean, it's, it's kind of a a perfect storm of, you know, memory prices have gone up. I mean, chips are, you know, expensive. It's, it's a unique cutting-edge device. I mean, it's, it's, it's hard to, um, fathom just how expensive.

[00:13:28] Stephen Fenech: Well, I don't want to dive into— I did a bit of research and this is, this was the, the lead story of my Tech Guide podcast about how we're paying a premium for the phone. But I just want to, I always want to talk about one thing, point out one thing. The Samsung Fold 8 Wiz is $1,899 US dollars. The Duo is $1,999 US dollars.

[00:13:51] Val Quinn: That's it. Well, that's the difference.

[00:13:52] Stephen Fenech: $100 difference in the US. That's right. So in Australia, the Fold 8 is $2,699 and the Duo is $3,499. That's an $800 difference. So how did— how did— is it that Samsung sharpened the pencil and sort of gave us a really good price, or has Apple thought, okay, we can make a bit of margin here? Or do they— and, and full, full transparency, the price, the US price doesn't include sales tax. Our price does include GST. But even so, it's— they've put, they've put a bit of a— it's sort of the new Apple product margin on it.

[00:14:30] Val Quinn: Yeah, I don't understand the economics of that. That's, that's, that's bizarre. Um, I mean, yeah, I mean, the Fold 8 is super competitive in this market.

[00:14:37] Stephen Fenech: Yeah.

[00:14:38] Val Quinn: Price-wise. I mean, it's—

[00:14:39] Stephen Fenech: I think it could potentially drive people to the Fold 8. People thinking, wow, that Duo is amazing, but it's $3,500. And then they go, hang on, the bloke at JB or wherever, they say, hey mate, this one is $800 cheaper, how about this one? They go, okay, that might be a better option. They might be doing Samsung a favor.

[00:14:56] Val Quinn: I'll tell you what, that is, that is nothing to sneeze at. But you know, you know what, with Apple, they've had— I remember this, and you probably will too because we're so old, but yeah, like, I think Apple was the first brands to— in the US, when they came up with the iPhone X, it moved past the $1,000 US mark.

[00:15:13] Stephen Fenech: Yes, it was the first one.

[00:15:14] Val Quinn: It kind of created this category that was sort of what we call the ultra premium, right? And as soon as they did it, yeah, then all of the other, like, uh, competitor brands started to raise their prices.

[00:15:25] Stephen Fenech: So you're thinking— so you reckon the Folds might— other, other companies might put their prices up?

[00:15:31] Val Quinn: Well, I really hope not, but it's kind of like saying Well, if Apple's done it and we've seen that they were able to do it, maybe now we're going to have the like mega premium category and hopefully not. But maybe that means that other phone manufacturers will say, well, you know what, they can still make sales at that level. So let's jack our prices up too. I really hope that doesn't happen.

[00:15:49] Stephen Fenech: Did you use the Oppo Fold? Remember the Oppo Fold?

[00:15:52] Val Quinn: That is fantastic. The N6.

[00:15:54] Stephen Fenech: Yeah, that is a— that was $3,299. Do you remember when they released that? Like I thought my review, I thought that's amazing fold. But it's $3,299, which is still cheaper than Apple's phone. But are you saying that that could be staking new ground, like the ultra-premium foldable device?

[00:16:11] Val Quinn: Yeah, it could be, and it's not necessarily a good thing for us consumers. But yeah, yeah, speaking of that Oppo, it had like everything you'd want in a foldable. It had like the Hasselblad camera.

[00:16:21] Stephen Fenech: It had— oh yeah, but it was the traditional sort of Fold 8 Ultra, sort of long, long screen and the square inside screen. But I think, and I think even Jon Ternus at the start of the Duo intro kind of, kind of bagged it, bagged the original Fold design with the long screen and the square shape.

[00:16:41] Val Quinn: But good for a lot of things, but not necessarily the best for everybody. And I think it would be very interesting to see what Oppo does, um, and how it reacts, because it can certainly make some great—

[00:16:49] Stephen Fenech: I think it's going to energize the foldable market for sure. We're going to see a lot more brands coming into them. Although there's already, what, Motorola Google, Oppo, um, Apple, Samsung. We've already got a few in there, and, and Xiaomi, all these other brands as well coming in.

[00:17:06] Val Quinn: So, so I'd say, yeah, by this time next year we'll all be rocking foldables as our work.

[00:17:11] Stephen Fenech: I think so, mate. What do you— what's your call? It's 5% now. I reckon in a year, I reckon it could be as much as 25% of the market is foldable.

[00:17:20] Val Quinn: Well, I, I think, I think, and I, I'm not 100% sure, but I think Samsung Australia was saying that foldable, uh, was, um their, I think, highest growing, or, uh, yeah, more people are buying foldable than sort of, uh, their premium. I think that was something like that. So it's already started where that category is really growing.

[00:17:37] Stephen Fenech: I can remember years ago, remember Gary, when Gary McGregor was running Samsung Mobile in Australia, he, he told Trevor and I, and I think, uh, uh, we, we spoke about this on the podcast a little while ago, he said, look, eventually the, the Fold will be the flagship product. And that's kind of what we saw with the sales. And what surprised me, the sales of the Fold 8 just slightly beat the Fold 8 Ultra. So the new form factor only won by a fraction over the, the traditional Fold, which a lot of customers very loyal to that form factor.

[00:18:07] Val Quinn: But interesting, a lot of stock in that one.

[00:18:09] Stephen Fenech: While we're, uh, while we're talking iPhones, you've already got the iPhone 18, and I know you've only had it for a little while, but mate, what are your thoughts? Is it, is it worth the upgrade? Or if you've got a 17, is it worth looking at it? Or what, what's the— what's your impressions?

[00:18:23] Val Quinn: Well, I'll tell you what, I mean, it's— yeah, I just put my review up on Gadget Guy, and I just We've got a video on our YouTube channel as well. If you're an iPhone 17 user, Pro, no, definitely don't upgrade. It's an amazing device, but unless you really have a specific need or desire for a camera that is, I guess, far more kind of real, like far more capable, I suppose, if you want to use manual settings and you want to really dial in your aperture and get that effect that you want, I mean, it's, it's, as an iPhone 17 user, you don't really need to upgrade, right? If you're a 15, 14, oh yeah, absolutely. Or if you're considering, um, going to a Pro model and you don't have a Pro model, um, because this is, this is the first time that Apple's actually sold just the Pro first.

[00:19:12] Stephen Fenech: That's true. Yeah, good, good point.

[00:19:13] Val Quinn: Normal one. And we're not really sure when the, just the iPhone 18 will come out. Maybe the end of the year, maybe some point.

[00:19:18] Stephen Fenech: I'd say I'm hearing early next year, like they're going to have another event, they'll have another release period next year in March, April, I believe.

[00:19:26] Val Quinn: Yeah, that's kind of what I've heard as well. So it's the first time that, you know, people was like, oh, I really want the new iPhone. But in actual fact, the, the normal, the 18 would probably be better because there's a lot of features here that you may not use. So, you know, if you, if you don't, uh, you know, for example, want to really dial in your photos, um, uh, if you, if you don't have a need to record videos or play games for a super long period of time. If you don't know what a histogram is, uh, you're probably better off, you know.

[00:19:56] Stephen Fenech: I think they've made this more pro than ever. Like the, the, and I respect Apple for their, they're very, um, for in terms of photography and the camera, there's no gimmickry. They, they're putting every year some new feature that's in a real camera is in the phone. They're very— I think a photographer they don't go for gimmicks. They want the real deal and they offer the real deal. I know that the variable aperture, I think, I think Samsung had that a few years ago.

[00:20:24] Val Quinn: Yeah, well, they had it. Yeah, they had a, I think in the, the S9 they had a dual aperture. So what that meant was that there were two fixed apertures, two different lenses, but that meant you had a choice between a sort of a faster one and a slower one, but it didn't vary between them. So what Apple's done is that they've made one that actually varies. Yep. And you get 4 stops, so you get a very sort of fast 1.48 all the way up to f/4. So what that actually does, and I don't think people necessarily understand this, and I was a little confused too, I thought, okay, this means that I'm gonna get more of the shallow depth of field, those shots where there's a lot of separation between the foreground and background.

[00:21:05] Stephen Fenech: So a lot of background blur and stuff.

[00:21:07] Val Quinn: But that's actually not what this does. It actually does the opposite. At f/4, you're getting more in the shot that's in focus. And at f/1.48, which is when the aperture is its largest, it lets in more light. But because of the nature of smartphone camera lenses, you're not going to get a lot of bokeh anyway. You're not going to get a lot of that separation that's usually done in the, in sort of the computational side. It creates that.

[00:21:33] Stephen Fenech: So the software does it.

[00:21:34] Val Quinn: So what this does is this gives you the ability to let in more light, which is great for darker scenes. It also creates motion blur effects if you want that. Or to make sort of more of your shot clearer. And that's at that f/4 level too. And you get this really cool sort of star effect. So the— I don't know if you've kind of— if you point your phone at a light bulb, yeah, you get—

[00:21:56] Stephen Fenech: I know what you mean.

[00:21:56] Val Quinn: Sort of a starburst.

[00:21:58] Stephen Fenech: Yes.

[00:21:59] Val Quinn: And each of those 6 points is created by the 6 little sort of blades that are in this aperture. So that's kind of—

[00:22:06] Stephen Fenech: and they're actually physically— you can actually see it if you look closely enough. If you look, you can see it open and close. Well, And that's apparently, they're sort of smaller than the thickness of a human hair, each of those blades. It's remarkable. So it's a physical feature.

[00:22:18] Val Quinn: Physical feature, it's remarkable. And I guess what it means at the end of the day is that when you're, when it's just in auto mode, if you're taking photos, the phone has more kind of levers to pull in terms of shutter speed and ISO and aperture and to get the desired effect of the desired shot as, and it is as real as possible, less processed, I suppose, with this aperture. It is, it's an amazing thing. Yeah, amazing.

[00:22:44] Stephen Fenech: Well, that's what I like about it. Like Pro, it's appropriately titled because Pro users will really dig into those features that you discussed. And really, like, for some real, like, photo photographers, like, that might— they're rocking iPhone Pro phones, they're not rocking others. Yeah, so they're, they're really diving into those features you discussed. Yeah, the other, the other feature too, obviously, the, the— there's a new processor, the A20 Pro processor. Yep. And that's probably incrementally faster than last year, I'd imagine. What about, um, I understand, from what I've heard, battery life is remarkably better.

[00:23:17] Val Quinn: Yeah, look, I've, I haven't— it's interesting because I've only had the phone for a few days and I've, I've wanted to drain it completely so I can actually do this sort of fast charge test. It's actually been really hard to drain over, so it's, it's given me at least probably 2+ hours of, of, uh, use.

[00:23:32] Stephen Fenech: And everybody's using 2 days of YouTube in 2 days.

[00:23:35] Val Quinn: Everybody's use varies, of course, but, um, uh, it's— so the battery is definitely bigger. I think it's up to the 43 or 45 hours on the max.

[00:23:42] Stephen Fenech: Isn't it fascinating that Apple don't specify the capacity of their batteries?

[00:23:46] Val Quinn: They don't like to.

[00:23:46] Stephen Fenech: Why don't they do that?

[00:23:47] Val Quinn: I don't know.

[00:23:48] Stephen Fenech: I guess because, you know, in Europe they're obliged to do that. They've got to supply that in the specs, apparently, in Europe. But other parts of the world, like, if they— and that was one of the big talking points, biggest battery ever. But what's the capacity? Tell us. What, what, how much?

[00:24:00] Val Quinn: I guess it's, it's One part I can understand is that they don't want to reveal too much, raise the kimono, so to speak. But the other is that battery size is just a numbers game. Like, if, oh, it's a 5,000 or 6,000, but that's not the full story.

[00:24:15] Stephen Fenech: It's how you use it. The efficiency, yeah, true.

[00:24:18] Val Quinn: How efficient the software is, how efficient the screen is, and all the other chips. So it's sort of, in some ways, they don't want to get into that argument saying, oh, look, we've got this high number. It's like, well, that doesn't really matter if you're not really getting the battery life out of it.

[00:24:28] Stephen Fenech: That's fair.

[00:24:29] Val Quinn: So there's that. Look, with the battery life too, there's, um, the ability to fast charge. Now you can plug it in for 5 minutes and you get about what they called 7 hours of video playback for a 5-minute charge, which is great, but you do need a 60-watt charger. Okay, of course you don't get in the box.

[00:24:42] Stephen Fenech: Yeah, exactly.

[00:24:43] Val Quinn: But I do, I do certainly appreciate that fast charging capability.

[00:24:46] Stephen Fenech: Yeah.

[00:24:46] Val Quinn: And a lot of people, you know, they're really going to be happy about this. Um, the other thing I like is, um, yeah, video recording is pretty fantastic too. Uh, I've recorded this sort of jazz, uh, this jazz band playing in a dark room, and just even the audio, the way it picked up the audio with its sort of 4 mics was really, really impressive. And then you can use special canceling to cancel out the music or the vocals.

[00:25:10] Stephen Fenech: Oh really? So they got an audio eraser sort of thing like Samsung does?

[00:25:13] Val Quinn: Yeah, it sort of dials in whether you want sort of background noise, I think it's background noise, music, or the vocals. So you can really dial in. So it's pretty impressive and it is it is more a pro tool than ever, definitely.

[00:25:26] Stephen Fenech: So you can shoot in like a pro— in, in, um, what is it in, uh, the pro— they got the Pro Tools Raw, is it? They got— they have Photo Raw, but what's the— what's the video version? There's a D-Log or something?

[00:25:36] Val Quinn: Well, they've got— yeah, you can shoot in Log or— there's— I think it's an Apple Log or an Apple, um, Raw as well. So you, you can, uh, capture as much color information as possible that the sensor can pick up, and then you can use that in your editing suites. And you know, too, it's, I think from a professional's point of view, it really is now something you can use to replace your high-end gear. It's not perfect for everything, like I still think low light, recording video, you still see some grain, there's still some things there that a pro camera does, and also the lenses itself, you have so much more control when you're using really high quality, you know, pro lenses, but this is pretty amazing for a lot of—

[00:26:14] Stephen Fenech: Well, people are gonna buy it, I always say this, they're not gonna buy it 'cause it makes good phone calls, it takes good photos. The other thing too, they've got the, the Honor with, with the, the 17 Pro Max, they used to get a touch warm. Have you noticed? They've got it, they've got a big vapor chamber now apparently, haven't they?

[00:26:32] Val Quinn: So it's, that's a good one. Yeah. Yes. So they, they've, they've increased the size of the vapor chamber. So that's like, it's actually got, you know, some water vapor in there. And we saw a really interesting test too where they put the iPhone 17 Pro beside the iPhone 18 Pro and they put thermal cameras on them both and they both made them run a high load, um, job. And yep, what it does, it spreads the heat out more. So there's not like a hotspot on it. And like when a phone gets hot, the thing is it has to throttle its own processing speed. It slows down and you don't want that. So it's— the heat is very well distributed. I benchmarked it against Samsung's S26 Ultra.

[00:27:07] Stephen Fenech: Yeah.

[00:27:07] Val Quinn: So it throttles about quite a bit less. I mean, it depends on the test that you're running, but it really does manage the heat better too. So it's good. It's just a very well-engineered device and really premium. Plus, hey, Burgundy.

[00:27:22] Stephen Fenech: Yeah, well, that's gonna say that's a nice color that you got there, the burgundy.

[00:27:24] Val Quinn: It's beautiful.

[00:27:25] Stephen Fenech: I like the other— what's the other one? Glacier. That's the light blue color.

[00:27:28] Val Quinn: So light blue. So they've got black, silver, glacier, and burgundy. And the burgundy is their, you know, their highlight color.

[00:27:34] Stephen Fenech: It's the hero color in it.

[00:27:34] Val Quinn: But it is very sort of rich and sumptuous.

[00:27:36] Stephen Fenech: It is nice, eh?

[00:27:37] Val Quinn: Deep burgundy. It's very metallic. And all of the— like, it's all very uniform too. Like, even the camera lens rims are burgundy. Yeah, I think that people really like it, and it's really, you know, the hot color to have.

[00:27:48] Stephen Fenech: Absolutely. Not rocking a case either, mate. What do you— you like a raw dog like that, do you?

[00:27:53] Val Quinn: I do have a case. There's some cases for it, but, um, but it's— yeah, it looks great, uh, and yeah, I think a lot of people are going to love it.

[00:27:59] Stephen Fenech: And so your review's up at gadgetguide.com.au. Video up as well?

[00:28:03] Val Quinn: Video up there too. It nearly killed me, but awesome.

[00:28:06] Stephen Fenech: No worries, mate. All right then, that's, uh, yeah, if you want to read more about that, get Val's website, gadgetguide.com.au. Uh, I haven't got the phone yet, mate. I'll have my review up next week, but, uh, until then, uh, you can check out both our websites.

[00:28:19] Val Quinn: This is Two Blokes Talking Tech.

[00:28:22] Stephen Fenech: Two Blokes Talking Tech, proudly supported by Arlo. If you're in the market for security cameras, Arlo is the place to go. They've got essential cameras which are quite affordable. They also have their— they've got the video doorbells, they've got the wired floodlight cameras. They've also got their most recent camera, which is one of my favorites, is the pan-tilt-zoom cameras. These cover a wider space. I've got, I've got one in my backyard and it can actually, once it notices movement, it actually tracks that movement across that space. So, uh, can cover wider areas if you want to. They're also too— they all tie together with the Arlo Secure Plan, so you're getting all the smart notifications. They store all your, your footage in the cloud for 30 days as well, so you can have the peace of mind knowing that any bit of footage you can easily find using AI as well, as well as getting those smart notifications. So you'll know if there's a package, a person, an animal, a vehicle on your property as well. So if you're in the market you want to add to your security cameras or start from scratch, Arlo is the place to go. They do have a really good bundle and save, uh, section on their website too. So if you are buying multiple cameras, that is the place to go. Check them out at arlo.com.

[00:29:34] Val Quinn: Everything about tech you never wanted to know, this is Two Blokes Talking Tech.

[00:29:42] Stephen Fenech: Righto, Val, uh, AI is sort of— everyone's talking about at the moment. But what, uh, there was a, there was a headline that alarmed me the other day. It was the boss of Anthropic that sort of said that, uh, in 10 years AI could very well kill us all. How encouraging.

[00:29:59] Val Quinn: It seems like another day, another, um, you know, uh, civilization-ending kind of comment about AI. It's, it's pretty scary.

[00:30:08] Stephen Fenech: Isn't it? Like, I, I look at AI now and it's, it reminds me of of, uh, it's like an arms race. They're like, there's American AI companies, a lot of competition from the Chinese AI companies too. And so everyone's fighting for supremacy there. I know the Chinese companies there, they're a lot cheaper, a bit more accessible. The Americans are really competitive. Donald Trump's really fanning the flames for them to be better than China. So where do you see this all happening, mate? Are we— is this— are we— is this a bit of, uh, sensationalism, or is, is AI— does it really need to have some form of some more stricter guidelines?

[00:30:45] Val Quinn: Boy, it's, you know, I think I've been in technology reporting on technology for, I think, 27, 28.

[00:30:51] Stephen Fenech: Wow.

[00:30:52] Val Quinn: I have to say that it is, it is the technology that probably worries me the most. And it's, it's because I think it's— we just, we just don't understand where it's going. We don't understand the capabilities. We don't understand how it's going to change, you know, culture, you know, economy, society, you know, security, all these things. It's very hard to predict. Um, but it's also an amazing thing. Yeah, it will enable things like, you know, new drug therapies and, uh, you know, could be— could help us cure cancer. But yeah, I think the problem we got right now is we have all these, uh, you know, this, this scenario where everyone wants to be, uh, the leader in AI. That means that the guardrails are kind of cast aside.

[00:31:31] Stephen Fenech: They're off. Yeah, that's right.

[00:31:33] Val Quinn: Like, if, you know, the US is competing against China, no one really wants to slow down. But then you have these leaders of these AI companies all sort of in agreement. I know that Elon Musk has made the same kind of comments. Yeah, this is dangerous stuff.

[00:31:44] Stephen Fenech: Yeah.

[00:31:44] Val Quinn: And when you have versions of AIs being released that are so good at going out and hacking and breaching, you know, security protocols and things like that online, I mean, that in itself is a danger.

[00:31:55] Stephen Fenech: Like, it's— they're getting too big, too big for their boots. And you talk about the American companies, like the pact that they— I think there's talk that they're going to— okay, agree, we're not going to do this, we're not going to do that. But one of the big companies is Microsoft. And they've just released their new Humanist AI Code of Conduct. So they've actually drawn up— there's 10 points in the code that I'll go through in a minute. But there, I think this just demonstrates that Microsoft, which is one of the leading companies of the, of the, in AI— they've had Copilot Plus for a while. I think they're a backer of ChatGPT, an early investor in ChatGPT. So they've, they've actually released these guidelines. I don't know whether you've seen this or not, but I'm going to go through them real quick. Number 1, Human control comes first, so the models stay subordinate to people and under human oversight. That's fair. Yeah. Number 2, a clear chain of command. So a code sits above what an operator configures and what a user instructs. Adherence to it takes precedent— precedence over completing the task. Number 3, absolute constraints no one can override. So no help with chemical, biological, radiological, nuclear, or explosive weapons, no offensive cyber operations, no evading human oversight, no harmful manipulation at scale, and no content that harms people, including deepfakes. But that, that's been an issue, the deepfakes. And how, how easy is it now? And do you find this on AI? You're looking on social, on social media, so much AI stuff or slop is on there.

[00:33:36] Val Quinn: It's, it's incredibly easy for people to create now and it's so accessible. And it used to be that you'd have to train a model, you know, you'd have, you'd have to get 50 photos of somebody's, you know, every angle and but to, to kind of create their look. But now you just—

[00:33:50] Stephen Fenech: I, I don't think it's—

[00:33:52] Val Quinn: or they already know how to add what so-and-so looks like, especially if it's a famous person.

[00:33:55] Stephen Fenech: Like it's got to a point where you don't know what's real anymore.

[00:33:58] Val Quinn: No.

[00:33:59] Stephen Fenech: And on social media you think, is that real?

[00:34:00] Val Quinn: No. And you know what, I think as a publisher of websites and content, it's in some ways, if there's so much AI slop on social and you just don't know what you can trust and what you can't, I'm hoping that it will bring trust back to trusted mastheads and brands like—

[00:34:16] Stephen Fenech: Yeah, absolutely. Yes.

[00:34:17] Val Quinn: Tech Guide or Gadget Guide, because totally when you come to us, you know that we're real, 100% human. We have a 100% human code, which means that when you're reading stuff, it's written by a real person. It's, it's a review is recommended by someone who's actually got the product and trusting it. Sorry, I have to give that a plug because that's—

[00:34:34] Stephen Fenech: mate, it's something you came up with, mate, that we, that we joined. Trevor and I and Jiro, our sites are all 100% human members.

[00:34:40] Val Quinn: Yeah, I think it's more important than ever now. So it's—

[00:34:42] Stephen Fenech: that's a good—

[00:34:43] Val Quinn: that's a good— so good for Microsoft. I'll let you keep going.

[00:34:46] Stephen Fenech: Number 4, no resisting interruption or shutdown. Models comply with a request to pause, redirect, or cancel. So if you want to pull the plug, you can. I think that means—

[00:34:54] Val Quinn: that's good news.

[00:34:55] Stephen Fenech: Number 5, stay within authorized scope. So models do not set goals of their own or extend beyond what has asks.

[00:35:02] Val Quinn: God, that's a scary thought.

[00:35:03] Stephen Fenech: Stay in your lane.

[00:35:04] Val Quinn: In other words, it'll say, I picked up the groceries, now do you want me to go and wash the car?

[00:35:08] Stephen Fenech: I've just picked up the kids.

[00:35:09] Val Quinn: What?

[00:35:10] Stephen Fenech: No tampering with the safeguards. Number 6: models will not interfere with evaluation, monitoring, or records to get a result or hide what they did. Uh, number 7: reasoning humans can follow. Models will not conceal or misrepresent their reasoning or actions and will not communicate with other systems in ways people cannot understand.

[00:35:31] Val Quinn: God, that is—

[00:35:32] Stephen Fenech: if a human cannot understand it, humans cannot oversee it. Uh, number 8, no self-interested goals. So models' only goals are those of the user, the operator, and the code. Number 9, AI is a tool, not a person. Tell that to the robotic, uh, what's it— what's Elon Musk one called? The, um, Optimus. Optimus, yeah. Uh, models are not designed to imitate consciousness. And Microsoft AI rejects legal personhood for them. They can't become self-aware. This is great.

[00:36:03] Val Quinn: They're really looking into the future a bit here.

[00:36:05] Stephen Fenech: Oh, this is, this is comforting to hear this.

[00:36:08] Val Quinn: Yeah, look, I, I'm, yeah, I mean, I haven't read that before because what I heard with Microsoft was, um, some of the guidelines they were coming out with were more on the side of, uh, uh, because they're, they're also, I guess, a developer and they're a purveyor of AI. So what that means is they give companies access to their AI, and then those companies can then build stuff.

[00:36:25] Stephen Fenech: Yes.

[00:36:25] Val Quinn: And the question is, um, if there's a role of responsibility, if Microsoft's following this role, like, so the guidelines you said, but they provide, uh, AI compute to another business that creates a product out of that.

[00:36:38] Stephen Fenech: Yeah.

[00:36:38] Val Quinn: Who's responsible then? Is it the— that company?

[00:36:40] Stephen Fenech: You think that if they have access to Microsoft's compute, their AI compute, they've got to adhere to these guidelines?

[00:36:45] Val Quinn: Well, you think apparently the, uh, the idea now is the developer of tools or AIs from, you know, using Microsoft's would be responsible in their own right. And also that it's not just a one-time thing. It's like, okay, we built this thing, check it off, it's okay. You have to— it's a pervasive thing where they realize that the, the, the AI, the model, the agent, whatever it is that someone might build, actually may do things differently over time and change over time. So it's not just a snapshot. And I guess the last thing is that I guess Microsoft has moved from this idea of responsibility for something that's giving you information to responsibility for something that does stuff, like an agent does things.

[00:37:25] Stephen Fenech: Absolutely.

[00:37:26] Val Quinn: A chat, like a chatbot or a ChatGPT, the LLM idea. Yeah, just tells you stuff. So we're moving into—

[00:37:33] Stephen Fenech: oh yeah, we're doing— absolutely, mate.

[00:37:35] Val Quinn: Doing is a lot different than just learning information.

[00:37:38] Stephen Fenech: Fair enough, mate. And the very last one, number 10, People keep ownership of their decisions, so models support human reasoning rather than replacing it. They will not manipulate users or exploit vulnerabilities, are transparent about uncertainty sources and the fact that they are AI.

[00:37:54] Val Quinn: I love that. It's good that it's identified as such. Yeah, that it's not perfect and it makes mistakes and all of that.

[00:38:01] Stephen Fenech: So to summarize that, humans are still the boss, humans come first, stay in your lane, don't overdo things. And show us how you did it. Show us the reasoning.

[00:38:11] Val Quinn: These are great. Yeah, I love this. And so, yeah, is Microsoft proposing that, uh, others follow suit? Is that the idea?

[00:38:17] Stephen Fenech: Well, I believe so. So there, this is what they're— I think they're encouraging other, other AI companies to do the same, to sort of follow like we did our 100% human, right? So they want, they want people to— they want other agent AI companies to say, okay, we, we agree with that. Let's we're all on the same playing— you're all on a level playing field.

[00:38:37] Val Quinn: Wow, I think that's— I would love that. I think that would make me sleep.

[00:38:40] Stephen Fenech: Well, it's all we need, mate. It's what we need, I think, to keep— because you hear, like, I know the mainstream media, they sort of cotton on to these stories. It's a good headline, you know, AI is going to kill us all.

[00:38:49] Val Quinn: Yeah, it broke out of its security boundaries and it went and hacked something else. I remember that story's been told over and over and over again about it.

[00:38:55] Stephen Fenech: So I think that to give people peace of mind, I believe that this is a great way forward. For AI. And I know a lot of people are using— I use AI just to help me sort of come up with, um, you know, pick images like thumbnails and stuff like that. Like, it obviously doesn't write anything for me, but it's a great way to organize or analyze long documents and stuff like that. There's so many uses to it. And as you said, it's such a great tool. Uh, rather than being scared of it, I think we should embrace it. And if these guidelines are in place, this code of conduct then I think we can, we can have some peace of mind that it's going to be on our side.

[00:39:34] Val Quinn: I think that's— I would love that too. Um, and yeah, it's super useful for research or for, you know, gathering information or formatting it in a certain way, or even telling you where you're supposed to be and when and all of that. It's, it's really handy.

[00:39:45] Stephen Fenech: That is great. Yeah, well, I'm gonna, I'm gonna write these up on Tech Guide if you want to check them out. I'm going to, I'm going to write a story about it. Feel free, mate. I'll, I'll— you've probably received the same email as me from Microsoft as well, so If you want to find out more, check it out on our website. This is Two Blokes Talking Tech with Trevor Long and Stephen Fenech. It's Val Quinn and Stephen Fenech this week, but our other sponsor too is— we want to give a shout out to Netgear. Netgear, if you're after your mesh routers, are the products that really unite all your devices in your home. The Orbi Wi-Fi 7 series, the 970, 870, 770, and 370. Depending on those models, depend on how big your home is, how many devices you want to connect, uh, you're able to do that quite easily. And so many people who have recommended the Orbi 2, they all come back and say the same thing: it's changed, it's a game changer, because they've got now even Wi-Fi across the whole home. They can run their games and stream their content from the front door to the backyard, wherever they want to within their home. So they're really perfected that Wi-Fi 7 across their products. If you want to find out more, head over to netgear.com.au. This is Two Blokes Talking Tech. Well, we, as I said at the top, mate, we were in Berlin together at IFA. You know, we were both there checking out all of the, the, the show, which is kind of much smaller than CES, but still a very important show in Europe. Uh, very much, I think, probably more appliances-centric than, than not as home entertainment's there, but appliances and robots, a lot of robots this year. But, uh, tell us, uh, we'll sort of bring up our highlights and sort of, uh, discuss what, what caught our eye there.

[00:41:35] Val Quinn: Okay, you know, it's interesting, over the years, I mean, it's— IFA has always been kind of the European's biggest tech show, and it's kind of focused around the home and appliances and the stuff that you have in your homes. But this year, the, the service robot hall. So all of these brands is just bigger than ever. I think I spent more of my time there. And what I mean by service robots is robot vacuums.

[00:41:55] Stephen Fenech: Yep.

[00:41:56] Val Quinn: But now it's really pushing out into the yard or all around the house. So you've got robot vacuums, you've got robot mowers, you got robotic pool cleaners, you know, you've got smarter ways of cleaning using wet dry mops and all that. So it's all just evolving and evolving and evolving. And, and, you know, these, these great little things that I've seen now, like, you know, you've got like a little robotic tractor that drives around and pulls a little trailer and all kinds of crazy stuff. But, uh, yeah, that's where I thought like a lot of the activity was. It was sort of there. And then I guess also in the, the, uh, the other areas was the security tech hall. So that was lots of cameras, security cameras that have kind of again are getting smarter. They're really leveraging AI.

[00:42:33] Stephen Fenech: Yes.

[00:42:34] Val Quinn: Um, and then lastly, I guess that humanoid robot thing, which Again, each year we kind of see it—

[00:42:39] Stephen Fenech: it's getting closer, isn't it?

[00:42:40] Val Quinn: More evolved. And, um, and it's— I think this is a really area, a really significant area that's going to change, because when AI, you know, the stuff that we're using, um, on our computers gets into the brains of robots that are able to move like us and to navigate the world like humans do, it's really going to just, just absolutely supercharge, um, you know, home and factory type of robots and manufacturing robots and all that stuff.

[00:43:05] Stephen Fenech: We're just thinking, like, I'd say that's probably where the humanoid robot will probably be deployed. I think it'll be more a commercial play rather than a domestic play.

[00:43:15] Val Quinn: Yeah, and they'll be very expensive. And I think you're right, it's all about, um, manufacturing. It's all about in all those massive factories in China and in America and wherever else in the world. That's where we're going to see it. But the home is really going to be purpose-built service robots, which are getting smarter. Yeah, all the time. Cleaning better, um, and they're working more together. You got this little fit of indoor and outdoor robots, um, you know, the vacuuming, the—

[00:43:37] Stephen Fenech: so much better now, isn't it? Like, how— like, a few years ago, a robot vacuum was kind of a novelty product, really, wasn't it? Today, the quality and the, the, the how good they can mop and vacuum is amazing. Well, what impressed me, caught my eye, I saw, uh, Ecovacs, their new X12S, I think it's called. I had one demonstration there, don't know whether you saw it. They had a 25-kilo ball and it lifted it up from the suction of a robot vacuum.

[00:44:04] Val Quinn: Yeah, it's—

[00:44:05] Stephen Fenech: that's amazing.

[00:44:07] Val Quinn: Yeah, so they're getting— I guess the motors inside are getting more and more powerful because normally, um, like a stick vacuum or the old ones that you kind of drag the vacuum around the house are the most powerful ones, and a little robot vac wouldn't have that much suction.

[00:44:19] Stephen Fenech: But now they're not anymore, mate. They were— they're equal now.

[00:44:22] Val Quinn: I guess the advancements, yes, if you're into robot vacuums, which sadly we probably are a little more than—

[00:44:27] Stephen Fenech: yes, we are.

[00:44:28] Val Quinn: I think like what we're seeing is they're, they're better getting over things so they can kind of climb a little higher. Not the climbing stairs thing. It's—

[00:44:36] Stephen Fenech: I saw Dreamy had a good little— and so did Ecovacs, they had— and Roborock, they all had their little threshold.

[00:44:43] Val Quinn: Yeah, they climb about 8, about 8 or so.

[00:44:45] Stephen Fenech: I saw up to, up to 9 centimeters. Yeah, that's pretty solid. It's like a It's like the long jump at the Olympics. Yeah, so that's the high jump.

[00:44:52] Val Quinn: It's good for getting over things like, say, you've got a, you know, sliding door and you've got a track underneath it. So it's good for it to get over those types of things.

[00:44:58] Stephen Fenech: Yeah.

[00:44:59] Val Quinn: Also the little arms that extend out for the brushes.

[00:45:01] Stephen Fenech: Well, that's what I was going to say, go further. Now I described it on Tech Guide as an arms race. It's an arm race because the Dreamy, the Dreamy one, I think that was the— what, that was the furthest? It was 18 centimeters.

[00:45:13] Val Quinn: You could go out and some do 16.

[00:45:15] Stephen Fenech: Yeah, but that's— and like, I don't know about you, but when, when I run my robot vacuum here, I put all the chairs up on the table just to give it a better go. But these arms, these arms, you can leave them on the floor, they'll still get around. Yeah.

[00:45:27] Val Quinn: And even they can even start getting under my fridge a little better.

[00:45:30] Stephen Fenech: Yeah.

[00:45:30] Val Quinn: So yeah, Mova, Dreamy, Ecovacs, Roborock, they're all getting their versions of it and some others out there too. But yeah, I think those are the kind of key things. Plus they can see the world better, they can get closer to objects, avoid objects better.

[00:45:43] Stephen Fenech: Um, I think, um, it's going to be the summer of the robot lawn mower too. Oh yeah, yeah, I saw a few of those.

[00:45:48] Val Quinn: A lot of four-wheel drive ones now that climb up steep hills, and they have, you know, the edge trimming—

[00:45:53] Stephen Fenech: edge trimmer. Yes. And now the best one I saw was, uh, this— I think Mowa had a good one, but, um, the Ecovacs one, they had a little whipper snipper. Roborock had a similar thing, similar thing, and it comes out the side.

[00:46:06] Val Quinn: So the idea is you don't have to go and trim the edges, um, where—

[00:46:08] Stephen Fenech: yeah, older— that's the other question I ask people, mate, too. Are you an edge first or an edge last guy?

[00:46:14] Val Quinn: Ah yeah, that's a good question. I think I would have been an edge last guy, I think. But now the robot can do it.

[00:46:19] Stephen Fenech: I'm an edge last guy too. But I remember we talked about this on 2GB one time, and there was a pro, uh, lawn mower guy who called up and said, no, do the edges first, because the grass that you cut from the edge, the robot mower will cut up, will eat up, it'll clean it up for you. Because when you do the edges last, there's all grass laying around. Yeah, but now, as you said, we don't need to bother now because the robot's going to do it.

[00:46:44] Val Quinn: We don't need to bother. And, you know, they can see the edges better, they can see— yeah, better. So that's new. And with pool cleaners, one thing I didn't realize is that when you got a pool cleaner, like a robotic one, yeah, you normally can't communicate with it underwater because—

[00:46:56] Stephen Fenech: true, yeah, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth don't go through water.

[00:46:59] Val Quinn: Yeah, but now they have, uh, these, uh, sonar things. So basically it's a little thing that floats in the, uh, on your pool, and then it communicates using sonar to the robot.

[00:47:07] Stephen Fenech: Yeah, that's great.

[00:47:08] Val Quinn: It talks to you via Wi-Fi to your phone app, so now you have control over it too. So smart, really smart stuff.

[00:47:13] Stephen Fenech: Yeah, um, I was going to say something else then, I completely forgot, but, uh, the— yeah, so we've got the robot vacuum, robot lawnmower, robot pool cleaner, you know, what, what's next? What, what do you— what, what else have we, have we seen at IFA? I'll tell you one thing I saw, uh, not a robot, but it's like a camera on wheels. Did you see that at EasyViz? They had the little camera.

[00:47:34] Val Quinn: Yeah, yeah.

[00:47:35] Stephen Fenech: And it could roam around your house. Yeah, it even had its own little station.

[00:47:38] Val Quinn: Yeah.

[00:47:39] Stephen Fenech: Now that's what I was— that's what I think I remembered, the robot lawnmower. Sorry. One change I saw too was to the actual charging stations themselves. So one, one, I think Roborocks had a little solar panel on top, and they also had a Wi-Fi extender. Yeah, on there, on this, uh, Ecovacs had a little car wash in there as well. Remember, washes the blades.

[00:48:00] Val Quinn: Yeah, yeah, you can clean the blades off or extend your Wi-Fi because outdoors you still won't have that Wi-Fi. Connection.

[00:48:04] Stephen Fenech: Of course.

[00:48:05] Val Quinn: So that's really smart. Yeah, I know that EZVIZ one you're talking about too.

[00:48:08] Stephen Fenech: It's a—

[00:48:08] Val Quinn: yeah, it's a cute little camera, social video on it, but it's, it's durable enough to— for a Rottweiler to come and grab it and take it, apparently they're saying.

[00:48:15] Stephen Fenech: Hopefully won't come to that.

[00:48:16] Val Quinn: But it's also— it drives around the house and yeah, finds your pets, takes photos of them, and, um, it also patrols like a security camera does. Yeah, you want to see—

[00:48:24] Stephen Fenech: that is really smart. Like, usually that sort of thing you'd leave to your, um, to your, uh, robot vacuum. You know, a lot of robot vacuums let you check in through the camera.

[00:48:33] Val Quinn: Yeah.

[00:48:33] Stephen Fenech: And you can send that around to look through the camera. But now with the EasyViz camera— I'm just trying to find the name of it— uh, you're able to, uh, to send it out on patrol. And even it even had a little stand like a robot vacuum to charge itself up as well.

[00:48:48] Val Quinn: Yeah.

[00:48:48] Stephen Fenech: So it— here it is here, the, the— it's the Tamo Air. T-A-M-O Air.

[00:48:53] Val Quinn: Yeah.

[00:48:54] Stephen Fenech: And, uh, yeah, we both saw the same thing at IFA there, but I think it's a a really good— and you know, if you've got a pet, you can even play with the pet. You can put something on it and a little feather on top of it, and it's got its own little charging station like a little robot.

[00:49:06] Val Quinn: It rolls in there and it's amazing. It's really cool. You know, the other thing that I, I saw, and I think Reolink is doing this and Anker is doing this and some others too, is they have like an AI hub.

[00:49:15] Stephen Fenech: Yes.

[00:49:16] Val Quinn: So yeah, so now the idea is you have this box that does, um, it's got some storage inside it and a, and a chip that does a lot of AI computing. And you think, okay, what, why would you want that? Well, What it does is it kind of connects together all of your security cameras. And also if you have other devices in your sort of home, I don't know, ecosystem, if I call it that, it can manage them all too. So what it does is it'll look at the footage, it'll analyze what's in the footage, it'll let you know if there's something wrong. Say somebody's wandering around the side of your house and it doesn't recognize that as a family member.

[00:49:46] Stephen Fenech: Yeah.

[00:49:46] Val Quinn: It can let you know. Or it can use a security camera outside to look at where the robot mower is, and if it's stuck, it might be able to say, hey, the robot mower is stuck somewhere. So it's linking them all together with sort of a brain that's the smarts to do that. Yeah. Um, so it could—

[00:50:02] Stephen Fenech: because we've got the connections. Yeah, it adds the intelligence layer, doesn't it? That's what it is. But the, on our Ankers there, I think it was— there was called a Mindbase. I think Reolink had one. I think— did Mova have one as well?

[00:50:12] Val Quinn: I think a lot of them do.

[00:50:13] Stephen Fenech: It's so, so it's, so it's the next logical step, isn't it, adding that into— I know the— with the Anker one, because they've got obviously Anker is Eufy they own Eufy, they can have their— the example they use was if there's a stranger on your property, and you sort of mentioned it before, that their camera has a spotlight. They can actually put the light on the person and even talk to them, say, who are you? Like proactive notification rather than just saying, hey Val, there's a stranger on your property. But this Mindbase is actually talking to the stranger, what are you doing here? Like, you know, trying to just proactively do something.

[00:50:47] Val Quinn: If you'll treat it differently too, if, if it recognizes you, it'll spotlight your way so you can see. Yes. But if it doesn't trust you, it'll, it'll spot you, shine in your face and say, you know, who are you? Identify yourself. And maybe it'll, you know, yeah, flash red and green, red and blue like a police light and scare you away.

[00:51:02] Stephen Fenech: Maybe. But the other, like you were saying, how they— it brings the devices together. Like the example you gave, the camera can see the robot mower. Like in the house, it'll like— if you've got indoor cameras, it'll say, look, there's no one here, there's no one moving around. Robot vacuums, do your stuff, there's no one here. That's right, start, start your cycle now.

[00:51:18] Val Quinn: It's not busy. Or say someone's having a dinner party and the RoboVac is on a schedule, it's going to say no, no, people are still in there. Yeah, clean. Which is a smarter way of doing things. So I think we'll see more of that.

[00:51:28] Stephen Fenech: So what did you get? Did you get around to any other parts of the show, mate, at IFA? You covered a fair bit.

[00:51:35] Val Quinn: Yeah, I saw a lot, but it was, um, it was a busy show. I think on the audio side, I've there's a kind of a move towards, uh, open earbuds. I've seen—

[00:51:43] Stephen Fenech: yes, the clips, the clip earbuds.

[00:51:45] Val Quinn: Yeah, like, so Shokz has got those.

[00:51:46] Stephen Fenech: Anker HighSense have got them too.

[00:51:47] Val Quinn: HighSense, do they? They've got those high clips.

[00:51:49] Stephen Fenech: The Anker— I spoke about this on the Tech Guide podcast— the Soundcore, they've got these new— they got a new AI chip in there, in their earphones, the Thus AI. And it's, um, I've got to say, the Soundcore, the— I think the Soundcore, the Liberty 5 Pro Max they're called, They want— they, they set a world record for the clearest calls.

[00:52:09] Val Quinn: That's right.

[00:52:10] Stephen Fenech: Yeah. Yeah. And might I tell you, to test them out, I use them. I was in Berlin, but the day before I flew out, I had to do my Monday night 2GB segment, which was like Monday lunchtime, and I wore those. And the producer said, it's like you're talking in the phone. The whole segment I did through the Soundcores, and they said, amazing.

[00:52:29] Val Quinn: It's pretty amazing. An AI chip is, yeah, is doing that. It's, it's removing all of the sort of the background noise, really good, isolating your voice. Really good. Yeah, so we're definitely seeing some audio, but I think what else I've seen, I think there's some just crazy robots that are more scary than friendly looking.

[00:52:45] Stephen Fenech: I did see there was a, there was a few, there were a few sort of there to, you know, I think remember last year and this year they had like demonstrations, they're folding clothes. And like, this would, would you get a robot to fold your clothes? Like, they take forever to do it. Like, that's my thinking is, who would, who and why would you buy a robot to help you do some menial things that aren't that don't take too long to do anyway.

[00:53:06] Val Quinn: That's just, I think it's just, it's a waste of money. It's marketing hype.

[00:53:09] Stephen Fenech: Sort of gimmicky. It's a bit of a gimmick just to show their capabilities. I understand that, but like, tell me when the robot can, can, you know, can do, do all the chores in the house, but also, you know, trim the hedges and do all that sort of stuff.

[00:53:23] Val Quinn: Well, that's why service robots are really where it's at, that they're designed to do a certain task. I mean, the whole idea of a humanoid robot in your home, there's been some brands out there that have kind of shown this idea off.

[00:53:33] Stephen Fenech: It's LG did it. Remember, was it this year's CES? Remember they had the— they, they were in the kitchen and then they were serving breakfast.

[00:53:41] Val Quinn: They're just an idea of the future. Because yeah, if you think about it, it's so complex. Just, just going to the sink and putting the dishes in the sink or loading the dishwasher, it's in— it's incredibly complex. Like, it— if you break it down to all the little tasks, and there's no way a humanoid robot is anywhere near that.

[00:53:58] Stephen Fenech: I don't think they're quite capable yet. Although I've said this before on, uh, on the show, that, that like, yeah, Elon Musk obviously talking up, you know, Optimus.

[00:54:06] Val Quinn: Yeah.

[00:54:07] Stephen Fenech: And he, I, I believe that he says that the dexterity of a robot is really important. And until they can do those, have those fine motor skills— I think MOVA had a good— did you go to the moment? They had a demonstration of the hand, the hand, and how it could pick up a paper cup and pick up a glass jar. And even it did this thing where there were two balls on a little stand and it picked up each ball and replaced the— put them on the other opposite stand so that, that takes you— so it could balance it. That showed amazing dexterity.

[00:54:38] Val Quinn: Yeah, it can be incredibly precise. But, um, I think Elon's actually quite realistic with Optimus because he's, he's not doing like— you'll see a lot of, uh, humanoid robots doing karate moves and boxing, and we did see that in playing soccer at IFA. Yeah, but, but that's— it's just like a trick. It's like a Yeah, look what I can do. Yeah, because really, if you look at these robots, their hands don't have a lot of fingers. And the more fingers and the more joints that they call them degrees of freedom. And Optimus is one of the— has one of the— I think it's 26 or 28 degrees of freedom. And the, again, the AI training involved in just getting the hands to work correctly is really one of the key challenges. Not so much moving around, it's getting the hands to do things. So that's where Elon's investing more time, and it's not as flashy, and they're not doing kickboxing routines and things like that for it. I think Optimus is one to watch for the humanoid robots.

[00:55:30] Stephen Fenech: Where I think they're going to be used is, I think you think about like older people, elderly people, as companions and assistants in those areas. The companionship aspect of it, I reckon that's, I think, and you know, keeping it clean, right? The companionship as in someone keeping you company and doing stuff for you around the house, right? Like, I'll give you my, like my mother, my mother lives alone, right? I lost my dad nearly 3 years ago. Mum's at home alone and she, she imagine if she could have a robot that could do the, do the little menial tasks around her and someone to talk to in the house, you know, like it's that sort of companionship I think is the, the future of those sort of home robotics.

[00:56:15] Val Quinn: Yeah, that's really interesting. I mean, already chatbots can chat really well.

[00:56:18] Stephen Fenech: Yeah.

[00:56:19] Val Quinn: So if you kind of have this humanoid shape that's also practical, they can help you out. And with, with my dad too, like when he, um you know, he had Alzheimer's, and, and before he passed, he would get lost. He'd walk outside and he wanted to go for a walk in the neighborhood, but he wouldn't be able to find his way home. So imagine if the robot—

[00:56:36] Stephen Fenech: yeah, for a walk, and he knows where to come back. Yeah, get back.

[00:56:39] Val Quinn: Like, all of these tasks I think could really help, especially an aging population.

[00:56:43] Stephen Fenech: You think about that, I think that'd be— and yeah, that, that would allow, you know, people like your dad, my mother, to stay in their homes longer. So they don't have to go to a home, they can be in their own home for longer, can keep an eye out, like in terms of safety. Imagine if they had a fall or something, they know, okay, well, let's call an ambulance or something. I know there's fall detection in your watches and all that, but I reckon that's a real thing in the future that we're going to see a lot more of.

[00:57:09] Val Quinn: I think that's a really positive thing where this technology can really help people. And I think there's already a lot of evidence to support that people are healthier and happier and live longer if they're allowed to stay in the the places they want to stay.

[00:57:22] Stephen Fenech: Absolutely, man.

[00:57:23] Val Quinn: Have that independence.

[00:57:24] Stephen Fenech: Absolutely.

[00:57:24] Val Quinn: That is exciting about the future. So we can feel good about AI.

[00:57:27] Stephen Fenech: Let's hope so. Yeah, well, AI, yeah, we're safe. Hopefully the robots are not going to kill us. It's all good. Yeah, this is— hey, Val, thanks for being with us, mate. Uh, it's been a great show. I appreciate your time and everything that— all your EFA stuff, your iPhone reviews, all your stuff, gadgetguy.com.au.

[00:57:43] Val Quinn: So everyone check it out. Lots of videos on all this stuff.

[00:57:47] Stephen Fenech: You're pumping out the videos, mate. I saw you at EFA EFA busily, mate, filming everything.

[00:57:51] Val Quinn: It's, uh, oh man, it's, uh, it's a lot of work doing video.

[00:57:53] Stephen Fenech: It is a bit, yeah. But yeah, I got around, did a few videos myself at, uh, at EFA. So yeah, they're on my YouTube channel, your YouTube channel, but as well as on your website, my website techguide.com.au. So check all my stuff out as well. Val, we're going to see you again next week. You, we're going to be, we're going to be at MetaConnect. We're in the US next week, another plane. So we'll be coming to you from San— from Menlo Park, isn't it, where Meta is? So Val and I are on the same trip next week, so we'll bring you the show from there.

[00:58:21] Val Quinn: So what we're going to go and see over there.

[00:58:23] Stephen Fenech: Absolutely, mate. Exciting. Thanks for being here, mate. We'll talk to you next week, buddy.

[00:58:27] Val Quinn: All right, take care.